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Ok, so it looks like we're recording. Um This is an oral history, audio recorded interview recorded the 16th of March 2023. My name is Travis Jeffries, uh history programs manager with the City of Boise and its Department of Arts and History. And I am here in

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Boise, Idaho and I am joined by uh Mr Richard. Could you state and uh spell your name, sir? Yes. Um My name is uh Richard James. Uh my friends call me Dick. I'm uh 78 years old and was born on April 8th in 1944 here in

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Boise. I was born on April 7th. So we both have birthdays coming up. Yeah. Yeah, I, I'll be 79. Uh So I have the legal release here, Dick that you signed and I signed it. So we're all squared away there. Uh I just want to thank

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you for your time today and um go over some, some thoughts and memories and ask a couple questions of you and things of that nature if that sounds good to you. Yeah. You know, it's uh it's unfortunate, you know, that that as kids, you know, we

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didn't have the curiosity, you know, to uh talk to our parents about family history. Um you know, uh my mom and dad were content uh to let us speak English. Uh unlike most uh you know, uh Chinese households, you know, where the Children learn and speak

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Chinese in the household. Uh we all of my brothers and sisters all grew up speaking, speaking English. Uh of course, our parents spoke uh Cantonese at home. And so we have rudimentary knowledge, you know, of the language just from listening to them. But I think, you

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know, that had something to do with the fact that uh my uh father was interested in becoming a naturalized citizen. Uh He was uh came over uh as a four year old um and went to school here in Boise and uh and went to school all

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the way until the time he was 18. And then he went back to China for his classical training as a Chinese physician and uh became the third uh doctor, you know, to serve uh this area. Um but both my mom and my dad became naturalized citizens.

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I remember helping them study for that exam and marveling at how much, you know, they had to, they had to learn, but both of them were eager to become citizens. And I, I think that had something to do with embracing uh you know, their Children speaking

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in English. Um We were all dropped off at Sunday school. And, you know, I think they were, they were interesting in interested in immersing us in, in the American culture. And, you know, the Chinese are, are, are polytheistic by nature, you know, by their culture. Anyway,

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uh you know, to them uh religion uh is more of a way of life than it is uh uh a study in theology. So, anyway, I, I, that, that's, that's the reason why we grew up the way that we did. And, and it's unfortunate, you know,

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that later when we became interested and I, you know, uh in what happened, we had to recover, you know, our family history uh by reading and uh you know, uh talking to other people. So, um my recollections are, are, are of those, you know, they're uh

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of um whenever I get gleaned from my family and then supplemented by what I was able to, you know, to, to uh to research, right? And it sounds like you've done a fair amount of research. I know when we met previously, you had given us uh

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link, you know, references to books and research papers that had been authored about your great granddad and all sorts of materials. Yeah. In, yeah, in uh 1971 the China Town was uh destroyed uh to make way for urban renewal. And at that time, there were still

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people that were living in the hip to building, although most of the people that were vacated, um but I remember one Chinese man living there almost until the wreck, wrecking ball struck. Uh So, um by, by that time, by 1971 you know, my uh my uh

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my mom and dad had already emigrated to the Bay Area of California. And uh so uh we were lucky because uh Arthur Hart, who was the uh curator of the Idol State Museum, oh, was able to recover some of the artifacts in, in, in uh my

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dad's office. Um you know, then I was just barely out of college and all the time that uh you know, that I grew up, uh I thought the things that were in my dad's office were, were really just junk. You know, things that were left behind

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because uh they were because they, you know, there were things that were no longer wanted, but there were a lot of artifacts in there. Uh things that had come from China, a lot of antiques, but the most important thing was uh was uh the wall of

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herbs that my dad had. Uh And later, it was uh it was uh found to be the largest intact collection of Chinese herbs ever found. And so uh researchers from the University of California came and uh cataloged uh uh what was in the herb boxes and

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also found uh recipes that, you know, uh of remedies that, that uh were 1000 years old. And uh and a lot of the things and herbs and things like that. Uh uh Well, they spent quite a, quite a quite amount of time cataloging those and identifying

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those. So a lot of the information that we got, you know about our family really came from, from uh those researchers because in a, in addition to, you know, wanting to find out about the herbs, they wanted to find out about the family. And so, you

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know, the, the uh the dates about when, you know, uh, uh my great grandfather came, um, what his Chinese name was. I never, never knew what that was. Uh, all of that came from, from those people. So we're very grateful to them. Um, so I'll just

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kinda let you take this interview where you want it to go because I'll, I'll just sit here and ramble. Well, that's ok. Hi. Hi there. And, you know, so one thing that I neglected to mention Dick is that, you know, during the oral history process, it's

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really not, um, the interviewer's job. My job is really just to kind of listen and steer the conversation. So you'll forgive me if I don't, um, interject a lot of thoughts and opinions, you know, and it's ok, um, for you to, to expound, you know, at

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length at a particular question, uh, I'll give some, I won't give a lot of verbal feedback but you'll see me nod my head and things of that nature. But I did, I didn't mention that earlier. So I just wanted you to be aware of that. Right.

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Ok. Well, you know, I, I uh you know, the, the first time that we chatted, I talked a little bit about how we ended up with the name. I think that would be good to, if you wouldn't mind that. I think that, you know, um in

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the Chinese culture, when you identify yourself, you always give your family name first. So in your case, you're Travis, Jeffries, you would, you would give your name as Jeffries, Travis. And that way people would recognize the family name for all of the millions of people who

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lived in China. There are really only 438 surnames so that, you know, family is extremely important to in the Chinese culture. And so that was the reason why you always uh identify yourself by your clan or your family name first. And uh the American immigration officials,

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you know, I think they either didn't care or didn't take the time, you know, to digest that fact. And so my uh my great grandfather came over and gave his name as Chuck A uh a being the first name and it was written down as uh

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as a, instead of a, you know, uh as being the first name and a being the family name. So that's how we ended up with the name of uh on my birth certificate. You know, I say it's interesting because uh, you know, visiting with all my

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brothers and sisters. Our names on our birth certificates were, were so different. Um, my, mine was, mine was, uh, Richard James Chuck with the, with the traditional familiar family name of Chuck. Um, my sister's names who are older, uh, their last names were off on. Um,

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my, uh, I think my brother's name was, uh, William Billy. William. Billy Chuck. I was Richard James. Richard James Chuck. And um uh in, in any event, uh you know, I, I, I was so worried about that as I got older, I kept thinking, well, that's

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gonna be cause a problem, you know, with uh social security and things like that, you know, with that, that uh name being on my birth certificate, Richard James UC. So I went to the process of having it legally changed. Uh But um uh yeah, that, that,

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that's how we ended up with the name. Um There were seven Children, there were five girls and uh I think by then my father had given up on the idea of having a son and of course, you know, like male uh heirs are extremely important to

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the Chinese people because they believe that if your name lives on in some way, you've achieved immortality. Uh So uh he had kind of given up on that and then as an accident, my brother came along. Uh and uh and, and so they decided to have

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uh a second child, you know, uh to follow him. So I'm kind of like Harry, I'm despair because, you know, in the Chinese culture, you know, really everything is, is supposed to go to the number one son and, and, and, and in turn, uh that person

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is obligated to look out after the family. Uh So that's just kind of the way it was done in, in, in the Chinese culture. Uh Anyway, I grew up here in Boise. Uh you know, uh we lived in a very, very small house on street. It

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must have been wall to wall kids because there was only two bedrooms. Um By the time that, you know, that I was old enough to remember, uh two of my sisters had already left home. My sister Betty uh went to California after she got married and

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my sister Ruby uh went to Chicago after she got married. And so there were fewer people, but still, that's quite a few people in a small uh house probably was up 800 square feet. Um You know, I, I think I, I had mentioned to you earlier

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ear earlier that, that uh I can't remember how long ago it was. Uh I don't know, maybe 10 years ago we were up there visiting that old age street house, still standing, still look pretty much the same. And uh I think they were, it was for

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sale and they wanted $650,000 you know, which, which, uh, give you some idea of how, uh, how popular the north end has become and how much things have changed here and how much, and, you know, the house, I'm sure the people finished the basement because when

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we grew up, it was just, you know, concrete walls down there that, that house the furnace, you know, and I remember going down there and having to take the clinker out of the furnace and that type of thing. But, uh, uh, when would that have been

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built? What, what was that? When would that home have been built? You know, I, I, I really don't know. Um, but, you know, it was old when I lived in. So, so I, I think it, I think it's pretty, pretty old. Uh, but I, I went

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to school here, uh, went to Longfellow elementary school. Uh, and then, uh, in 1957 we moved up on the bench and, uh, you know, I think I had mentioned before that I thought that all the time that we were growing up, that we were poor and,

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and I, and I, I thought that because we lived in such a small house. Uh, you know, I mean, even then, you know, I knew, you know, it was a smaller house. Uh, but in 1957 my dad announced that we were going to move to the

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bench and we bought a brand new house on Esquire Drive and uh, it was 18,500 my dad paid cash. So, you know, I was, you know, I was just kind of shocked, you know, but I think they were, uh, you know, they were very frugal as

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we grew up and the kids always had everything. Um, but, um, and my dad seemed like every two years would buy a new car and, uh, and everything was always cash. But for him to pay $18,500 in 1957 I think that was even then that was

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a sizable amount of money. So in 1957 we moved up on the bench. And so then I went, instead of going to North Junior High school, I went to West Junior High school and then later went to Bora High school and graduated from Bora. Uh I

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spent one year at the University of Idaho. Ran out of money, came back and, and, uh, you know, I went to Idaho and I bought every sweater, every paddle, every fraternity pin and ended up running out of money. And so in my sophomore year, I went

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to Boise Junior College. I still was junior college and then got some scholarship help to go to the college of Idaho. And so I went to the College of Idaho, graduated from there and I began my teaching career in 1966 um, and ended up teaching 34

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years, uh, went back and got my master's degree at the College of Idaho. And, and uh and then had a, a very satisfying 34 years teaching school in the Boise school districts. Um So anyway, uh my brother and, and I, we always talk about how we're

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kind of like bananas where we're kind of yellow on the outside, but on the inside we're white and that's because that's the way we were raised. Our culture is really, we were just kind of like white kids. And for the longest time, I, I must not

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looked in the mirror much, but I, I, you know, I didn't really realize I was, you know, different until I went to school. And I remember somebody making fun of me saying Ching Chong China man sitting on a fence. And I remember uh we live four

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blocks from longfellow. I remember running home and talking to my mom crying in tears asking if we were Chinaman. And she said, well, you are Chinese and I was kind of devastated. So it wasn't so much. I don't know, I just didn't pay attention to it.

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We just were raised, you know, as American kids and we just always thought of ourselves as, as American kids. And then as I, as I got older, then I, I realized, you know that, you know how much uh we had lost by not absorbing the Chinese

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culture and not learning the language. And, and it was really when I was in uh after college that I began to try to retrieve information about our family. Uh The uh the apothecary grew, uh the great grandfather came over, uh he came over for a number

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of reasons, you know, and, and during that period of time, it was the uh the end of the Qing dynasty. And um that dynasty had thrived for hundreds of years. But at the end of the dynasty, there were a number of famines, there were wars and

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uh and, and, and the, and the country was not doing well. And uh the Qing dynasty where men choose uh they were not native Chinese. And so the man choose had everything and the Chinese men had virtually nothing. And so they began leaving the country and

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drove to try to seek an income some elsewhere. Uh They went wherever they could go. Uh usually some place where they thought that they could make some money so they could eke out a AAA living and, and send money back to support the people in China.

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Oh They went to uh America uh because of uh the gold mining, because of the ability uh to operate as uh uh cheap labor. Uh They went to New Zealand, they went to Australia, they went to anywhere that they could in order to uh to uh

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uh eke out a living. Uh it led to a situation that sociologists call the mutilated family. And the mutilated family refers to the fact that the man leaves China and the family uh stays there. And because of that, most of the Chinese communities was made up

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mostly of men. And uh the reason my father was brought to America was because my grandfather was so lonely for family that he brought him uh with him. Uh And so uh right, great grandfather, my grandfather and my dad were all uh here. Eventually the, the,

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the the original uh place where uh my great grandfather practices, his medicine was uh in the Rocky Bar area, the Idol City area. And later they, they uh migrated to uh to Boise but uh but the situation uh universally was men were trying to uh to

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make a living for their family elsewhere. And um and so that was true with our family as well. Uh Now Dick was the, was the goal to, to eventually bring the family or was the goal, the goal was to, to move the family, the, the, the

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goal was to to make a living in it and then eventually go, go back to China. Uh My great grandfather came like many of the other men, you know, to seek a living. But, but, you know, there also some, some evidence that he was a uh

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a bit of a political activist uh against the man. And so, and in fact, one source uh indicated that he had to leave China, you know, to escape persecution from the man. And so he came here with the idea of, of treating the minor uh because,

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you know, in those days, you know, uh uh the, the Chinese really were denied any type of medical attention, uh as poor as it was uh uh protection, you know, uh from the law, they were kind of denied those kinds of things. They were lucky they

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were, they were able to, to, to mine in Idaho because in most com mining communities, they were not allowed to do that. Uh And in Idaho, of course, they were taxed. Uh there was a mining tax, you know, that was specifically for the Chinese where they

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had to pay for $4 a month just for the, the ability to mine. Uh they were sold uh claims that were thought to be worthless or worked out or, and uh uh still were able to, you know, to make a living. Uh They also, uh you

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know, became involved in farming, truck farming and that type of thing and, and uh uh delivering vegetables and that kind of thing. Um I remember growing up uh in uh in Boise, there were still were Chinese gardens uh along Tin Boulevard. And uh also uh uh

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you know, where, where strawberry Glen is now. Uh That was a, a big, a side of a big Chinese uh truck farm. Uh They were called truck farms because they delivered their uh their vegetables uh by truck. They also were uh uh uh farms along Capitol

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Boulevard. And uh and then, you know, uh uh the name Chinon Boulevard gets his name from the, the joining of Chinese. And, and they came up with. So, so, you know, I, I, I remember those kinds of things. My great grandfather came up with the idea

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of treating those Chinese miners. I see. But what he found was a built in clientele and caucasian people. Uh And that was because in those days, you know, anybody could uh hang out a shingle and say that they were a doctor and uh uh the treatment

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of often included bleeding, you know, uh and so you had to hope in those days that the cure didn't kill you. And, and, and uh uh my great grandfather was able to make people well using Chinese herbs and teas and remedies, you know, that uh that

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he learned when he did his classical training in China. So he became uh he, he became very, very popular among uh the Caucasians as well as the Chinese. And I suppose because of that became a leader uh of the Chinese community and the spokesman uh of

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the Chinese community. And later that was inherited by my dad uh when uh you know, growing up, you know, and after uh my grandfather had gone back to China, you know, uh which is evidence of the fact that, you know, most of the Chinese that came

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over and never intended to stay they always wanted to go back to China. And as a matter of fact, many people who died in America had their bones shipped back uh so that they could be buried in their ancestral land. Now, I believe that I read

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in, in newspaper accounts that your great grandfather and had a this funeral procession. His obituary was published in the Idaho statesman in the newspaper. And I think they said that something like 1000 people attended his funeral procession. And then did I read correctly that, that his

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body was repatriated to China as he buried in China. Uh Well, I believe that, I believe that's the case. Yeah. Um Now, is there a cultural belief behind that or was it just the affinity for where for family and for homeland? I think that I think

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that probably was reasonable the latter. Um Yeah, uh you know, to us, you know, the second generation Chinese, you know, of course, you know, this was always our country. But for the old, for the elder Chinese, I think they always felt like they were uh uh

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people in an alien land and, and you know, the they wanted to be repatriated with their country. So uh and then in, in uh in the late 18, about 18, 18 82 the United States Congress passed the passed the Chinese exclusion laws, the Chinese Exclusion Act

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which prohibited uh Chinese to come into come into this country. You need AAA very, a very closely uh regulated visa in order to come. And because of that, and because of the fact that many of the Chinese left, uh to be repatriated, uh, you know, it,

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the, the population here in Boise just dwindled. Uh And by the time that I was old enough to remember, there were really only five Chinese families that were here in Boise. Uh, and, and the number of Chinese that were here in the 18 eighties where, you

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know, there were, there were thousands, thousands of people. Uh I believe, I, I believe I read one time that in Idaho City, there were 70,000 miners up there. And uh and a lot of them were Chinese, I believe, I believe it was 7000. But even at

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that time that that made Idaho City the largest city in the Pacific Northwest. Well, and, and what it was, it was uh I think it was the largest Chinese population, uh you know, as a community. Oh, it was really the largest one except what was on

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the west coast. Many of those mining towns in the Boise Basin like Centerville and Quartz uh pioneer Placerville, Idaho City, they had majority Chinese populations at least for a time, right? During the time that you're talking about in the 18 sixties, 18 seventies. And then of

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course, after the, the passage of the Chinese Exclusion Act in 18 82 it dwindled, it really, it really dwindled as a matter of fact, you know, uh the Chinese Exclusion Act was for 10 years and in 18 92 they, they did it again for another 10

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years. And then after that, they made, the decision was just make it permanent. And because of that, you know, the Chinese population in this country dropped dramatically and, and a lot of that had to do with the fact that uh you know, they uh they went

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through a period of time where uh nativism was so strong in this country and, and there was the beliefs that, you know, the the Chinese people were taking all the good jobs and we're going to eventually take over the country and, and that yellow parallel scare,

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you know, that ran through the country, uh really precipitated the uh the Chinese Exclusion Act, right? Uh So, uh you know, uh the population here in Boise certainly drop, you know, and I would imagine too that it was a product of, as you mentioned that a

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lot of people were looking to come make some money and then send it back home and then eventually return back to China. So I imagine there was some back migration as well. But let us not forget that. At the same, at this time, in the 18

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seventies, 18 eighties, 18 nineties, there were these really incredibly violent expulsions across California, places like Nevada, uh Oregon, right? Of mobs basically driving Chinese communities out. I mean, it was a really violent, uh, racist Travis is just kind of the history of this country that whoever

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comes last, you know, uh, is uh persecuted. Yeah. And, you know, as a matter of fact, you know, in, in, in uh period of time that, you know, my family first migrated to this country, they were one of the most despised, you know, ethnic groups uh,

00:28:59.550 - 00:29:15.239

in this country where the Chinese probably only, only rivals by the Irish. You know. Um and, and that had to do with the fact that, you know, in the potato family, so many of the people from Ireland migrated over here, that they had the same issue,

00:29:15.250 - 00:29:35.770

the same mindset. And I remember reading, you know, historical accounts about uh you know, people advertising for jobs and, and then many of them would say and I, and a no Irish need apply and everybody understood what that, what that was. So, so uh yeah, so

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they ended up uh becoming uh you know, the cheap labor, the taking the jobs that nobody else wanted to do. Well, you build a building a railroad, building a canal or, right? It was called labor. Yeah, this exploitative system of labor, right? That paid uh Chinese

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workers so much, dramatically less than white, right? Yeah. And I, and I think, sorry, Dick. Uh I just had a thought, you know, it's just, I think that's what makes your, your grand, your great granddad's story. And your family's story so compelling to so many people

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and why so many people have latched on to it and tried to recover his story right, in the legacy that your family represents is because it wasn't in time of, of intense racism and xenophobia and frankly violence, you know, towards the Chinese community here in the

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United States. But your grand, your great grandfather persevered through that and created this legacy of, of really helping people and, and becoming a community leader and passing that on to future generations. It, it's really a remarkable story. Yeah, it is a story but a lot of

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it, you know, also has to do with other Chinese people that because of their culture were people who were taught that hard work brought success and that uh that uh diligence uh being able to uh uh to stick with the job, to be able to stick

00:31:10.670 - 00:31:30.920

with uh working conditions and things like that. And make a success out of that is really something that's culturally part of the way that they were raised. And so like, even though there was discrimination against Chinese during the time that I grew up, I remember uh

00:31:31.069 - 00:31:48.839

when I first was married, being denied uh uh apartments, things like that because uh not so much because I was Chinese but because there was a mixed marriage and, and you know that uh here in Boise, here in Boise and in Caldwell, uh even when I

00:31:48.849 - 00:32:07.229

was going to the College of Idaho, you know, uh uh that was an issue. So, you know, there, there, there was a discrimination during that time but, but, you know, because of the fact that the Chinese were hard working, so successful, uh there also was some

00:32:07.239 - 00:32:26.420

positive influences from that as well. Travis because, uh, you know, I don't know if it's because of my sisters probably had a lot to do with it because we all went through long fellow and, and, uh, I had sisters who were very bright and, uh, so

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when I came through they just assumed that I was gonna be the same that I was gonna be bright, uh, that I was gonna be well behaved. And so there was positive expectation there as well, uh, from people that knew us. But, um, but, uh, yeah,

00:32:41.579 - 00:32:59.449

but there was, I remember being screamed at, at airports, uh, whatever, you know, because of our race. Um, and yeah, that was just part of growing up. Well, it's unfortunate. It's really too bad. Well, it is. But, you know, uh, there's not something that's unique, you

00:32:59.459 - 00:33:17.530

know, to the Chinese. It's just, uh, it's just kind of the way it, it was. But I think because of Boise, because of the fact that they're, um, there wasn't, by the time that I came around there was an overwhelming, uh Chinese population, you know, here

00:33:17.540 - 00:33:35.989

in town, um, that, that the discrimination wasn't really so intense. That, you know, that, that, that was, that we were fearful, right? You know, we were aware of it but, uh, it wasn't something, uh, that, you know, where we were raised to be fearful. And you

00:33:36.000 - 00:33:49.369

think it was because of the, by that point in time, the 19 sixties say 19 seventies, uh, around that time that the, the Chinese population in Boise had, had diminished so much that they're just, I think so. I think that probably has something to do with

00:33:49.380 - 00:34:05.959

it. And then the fact that, you know, that the families that did stay were fairly successful families. Um and um I was talking with your, your brother, Bill William, you know, we did a world history interview with him and he said something very similar, you know,

00:34:05.969 - 00:34:17.989

that growing up there was a lot of um positive expectation and that, you know what your dad was really well known, your family was really well known. So, do you, I wonder if there was like some of that, what, what might be referred to today as

00:34:18.000 - 00:34:39.570

kind of like the model immigrant mindset? I, I don't know, I, I remember one time my dad getting an offender vendor and the policemen coming up and the first thing was, hi, Doc, I'll take care of everything, you know, that type of thing. So it was

00:34:39.580 - 00:34:56.209

uh yeah, there was uh you know, I because of the fact that the great grandfather, you know, was kind of like a liaison between the Chinese community and, and the Caucasian community. You know, he became quite famous as a matter of fact, uh I don't know

00:34:56.219 - 00:35:12.570

if my brother talked about this, but you know, to this day, he is the only uh uh person of color to sue the uh the state of Idaho and, and win a lawsuit. And that had to do with the fact that at the turn of the

00:35:12.580 - 00:35:33.360

century, they uh they decided that, you know, they needed to license physicians. And so all of the Caucasian people who are currently practicing were grandfathered in and were given a license, but the Chinese were not. And uh my great grandfather uh actually went to court and

00:35:33.370 - 00:35:50.989

it has to do with the fact that because he was a liaison between the Chinese and the uh the Caucasian community, he knew people in high places and the family story was that he uh that he uh uh was, was AAA physician to the governor of

00:35:51.000 - 00:36:08.790

the State of Idaho. And that, uh because of that, you know, he was uh encouraged to uh to challenge that uh that law. And so, and he was successful because after that, uh he not only received his license, but that license was passed down to my

00:36:08.800 - 00:36:25.699

grandfather and also my father who was able to write prescriptions. Uh you know, uh so I remember reading that in the 18 nineties, just as you were saying, there were the, the passage of these, I don't know if there were laws or, or restrictions or policies

00:36:25.969 - 00:36:44.459

that basically restricted certain individuals from practicing medicine. Right. And your, and your great grandfather was one of the few individuals, he took his case all the way to the Supreme Court of the State of Idaho and won and became one of the very few Chinese doctors

00:36:44.469 - 00:36:58.739

registered licensed in the state of Idaho. Yeah, I think, yeah, maybe the only one, perhaps I'd be the only one. There were other herb doctors or that were but uh none, none had a license like yeah, and that brings up another question too that I had,

00:36:58.750 - 00:37:10.639

as you mentioned, I think and not to make the the entire interview about your great granddad, I wanna talk about you and your life and your accomplishments too. Um But one thing that stood out is you mentioned that he was uh your great granddad C K

00:37:10.659 - 00:37:26.889

A was trained classically as a, as a, a doctor in, in China, in China. All of all of them, the, the my grandfather and also my father all received classical training. All their training was received in in Yeah, you know, I I don't know if it

00:37:26.899 - 00:37:43.030

was but it was in China. Uh Yeah, my uh my my dad, you know, was raised here until he was 18 and then he went back and he got his classical training as well. So uh there were three classically trained herbalists but, uh, that were in

00:37:43.050 - 00:38:01.639

our family. Um, and, you know, uh, Travis, we, we grew up drinking those bitter teas and, and, uh, using Chinese remedies, uh, some of them were pretty terrible tasting things but, but we all were pretty healthy and it was something like we were needed a shot

00:38:01.649 - 00:38:19.100

of penicillin or something. My dad, dad always made sure that, you know, we would go to the doctor and get that. But, but for most things, you know, we, we uh we, we were given and relied upon, you know, those Chinese medication that uh this one

00:38:19.110 - 00:38:38.290

medication that I was uh the Chinese name for. I, I, I don't know exactly uh if there is an American name for or whatever, but it was uh uh would, you know how that would be translated into English? I, I don't know. But, but I do

00:38:38.300 - 00:39:02.449

know that that uh in my dad's office, there were jars of uh of uh snakes that were being marinated in alcohol and brine and herbs. And after a period of time that became the tonic that you used if you have a sprain or anything like that.

00:39:02.669 - 00:39:16.639

And to this day, all members of our family talk about the fact that how well that worked and how they would love to get their hands on something like that. Again, your, your brother Bill mentioned that in his interview and it was, it was fascinating because

00:39:16.649 - 00:39:33.149

he remembered and I don't know if you recall this or not, but he, he recalled how your father would go up into the mountains and he would, he would hire people going to south work of the, of the uh of the Boise River and collect rattlesnakes

00:39:33.159 - 00:39:49.679

and they collected them live and, and, and I remember, you know, uh and my brother, Bill, I'm sure I remember one time when we were there and they actually brought the snakes in and they were in gunny sacks and, and they would dump them the snakes

00:39:49.689 - 00:40:05.459

on the floor and then the people had this little uh rod with a fork on the end of it and they would grab, you know, trap those snakes, reach down and pick those snakes up and put them in those jars. Uh So, uh it was uh

00:40:06.000 - 00:40:18.050

you know, it, it seems so fantastic to think about it now, but that is my memory and scary. Yeah, that is my memory of it. And your brother was saying that uh they would take, I don't know if it was your granddad or, or who, but

00:40:18.060 - 00:40:30.500

would take it and snap it like a whip to kind of stun the snake and then put it in the jar. That's what they did. That's what they did. They were beautiful souls. It was uh that was uh that was really quite an exciting time for

00:40:30.510 - 00:40:42.570

us to watch those snakes come in. But, but, you know, in those days he did a lot of stuff like that. I remember we used to buy our poultry chickens. Live down there at Walsh's poultry. And my dad would take to do the same thing with

00:40:42.580 - 00:40:57.909

his chickens. He'd grab those chickens and give them a toss and ring their neck and, and, uh, yeah, I remember that growing up a little different than going and buying it packaged up in the grocery store. Right. A little different. Uh, I just can't imagine all

00:40:57.919 - 00:41:10.020

that work of de feathering those things and everything. But that was just kind of the way they did things and, you know, all the time that we grew up, you know, we always, I was always kind of a little ashamed of the fact that, you know,

00:41:10.030 - 00:41:29.600

our house never always smelled a little different from everybody else's because of the food and everything that was cooked there. And, um, you know, I, I, I, I remember kind of being embarrassed about that and, and, uh, and I, I regret now not embracing it more.

00:41:30.179 - 00:41:48.379

Um, but I think it's common, you know, a lot of Children, they don't show an interest in what their parents are interested until too late. You know, most people want to be like everybody else, you know, and so things that separate them language, food, uh, dress,

00:41:48.389 - 00:42:03.520

you know, those things, you know, are, are going to be kind of put behind those people who want to be part of a larger hole. So I don't think that's unique to the Chinese or unique to us. But, but I remember experiencing that uh growing up

00:42:03.530 - 00:42:18.100

and I imagine too that it, it may have been even, you know, that, that um that notion or that feeling to want to fit in was probably even made stronger by the fact that there weren't a lot of Chinese in Boise at the time that you

00:42:18.110 - 00:42:33.000

were growing up, right? So the community that you were surrounded by was mostly Caucasian community. They were, they were um you know, all of our friends and everything like that were all Caucasian. And of course, there was the five Chinese families and they would get together

00:42:33.010 - 00:42:50.199

on, on holidays and things like that, you know, and, and uh have big dinners and, and that type of thing. Uh you know, uh Chinese New Year always was a, a big, a big thing where people would get, the little kids would get their, their money

00:42:50.209 - 00:43:05.820

that was wrapped up in red paper that was given as good luck and, and as kids, we'd always make quite a ha you know, between the people that were around the Chinese people around, you know, uh and I still carry on with that tradition now, with

00:43:05.830 - 00:43:26.409

my grandkids and things like that on Chinese New Year, they all get their and, and in our case, you know, I, you know, uh I don't know if you ever heard the stereotypes of Chinese or gamblers. But, you know, there's nothing in my rearing that would

00:43:26.419 - 00:43:48.030

deny that stereotype because our family were all gamblers. Uh, you know, the people would play, they would play it for money. But, uh, we would play poker, uh, you know, for money a lot of times after a big family dinner, get clear off those dishes, bring

00:43:48.040 - 00:44:02.199

out the cards and chips and, uh, and they, and all the people in our family were darn good poker players. Uh, my mom included, uh, my sisters, you know, they were really kind of card sharks and I kind of, I kind of grew up with that.

00:44:02.209 - 00:44:18.820

Uh, what kind of poker did you play? Oh, we played everything. We played all different kinds of games of poker. And, um, and then, and then, uh, you know, on our Chinese New Year dinner, I give the kids their money and then they take part of

00:44:18.830 - 00:44:34.860

it to buy chips and then we, we gamble afterwards. It's, it's kind of a fun thing. Yeah. But, um, yeah, I remember when I first started taking my wife down to California. Oh, it would drive her crazy because she had tried to go to sleep and

00:44:34.870 - 00:44:48.949

the family would be out there playing cards till four o'clock in the morning yelling and throwing their cards and, and, uh, yeah, she, she couldn't believe it but that, you know, that was kind of the way that was our family recreation. It sounds like a lot

00:44:48.959 - 00:45:02.239

of fun. Yeah, it was, it was, it was great fun. But it, but it also was, uh, for money and so, you know, you better, you better have good cards or you gotta lose your money. Well, I mean, the depends on which way the wind is

00:45:02.250 - 00:45:16.540

blowing, I think in, in our country now, you know, you see that the, um, the laws and restrictions around gambling are starting to be relaxed again, right? In places like New Jersey and, yeah. Well, you know, it's, it's funny, I, I have no desire to go

00:45:16.550 - 00:45:30.939

gamble my money, you know, in a casino or anything like that. But, uh, but, uh, you know, I, I don't know, I was just kind of raised with, you said, sure that, you know, gambling in the family. And, uh, so, you know, a big part of

00:45:30.949 - 00:45:45.350

this project, you know, some of the questions that were kind of driving this project was the interest around Chinatown. You know, locally, there's always a lot of lore surrounding Chinatown. But what we're finding is, you know, by having conversations with folks like you Dick is that

00:45:45.360 - 00:46:05.889

Chinatown had really, it had kind of declined through the fifties and the sixties. Um, obviously by 71 as you mentioned, it was totally demolished. And, you know, there, there were really kind of two areas where the Chinese congregated, uh later it was on Capitol Boulevard on,

00:46:06.149 - 00:46:25.250

you know, uh seventh street. And uh right there where the uh capital Boulevard and Grove come together, that is where the, the last buildings that were, you know, part of the old China town were raised. They were all, that's where they were all torn down. But

00:46:25.260 - 00:46:46.250

there also was an area on, on Idaho Street. Um uh there used to be a restaurant there called where there were uh 12, three Chinese restaurants that I can remember uh that were all in that area. One was uh the bamboo gardens, one was tea garden

00:46:46.530 - 00:47:05.479

and one was one called Shanghai uh which is uh which were three Chinese restaurants that are all in that area. But they were, but that was all. But those areas where those restaurants were located were Chinese also also lived um and, and, and, and, and, and

00:47:05.489 - 00:47:22.629

I'm too young to remember it. But our family actually live, you know, I believe on, on Idaho street. Um By the time I was old enough to remember it was the street house. But uh uh yeah, by the time that you know that really, that even

00:47:22.639 - 00:47:42.219

by the time that I was in, in high school, there really was no China town really, you know, um you know, we heard stories about when there was uh the Tong wars uh about how people would use basements. Uh That's how I think the legend of

00:47:42.229 - 00:47:59.520

the Chinese tunnels grew in Boise that the people who would use their bath uh their basements to connect with other buildings. And it was mainly as a means of uh of escape so that if they were, you know, if they were confronted, they could go down

00:47:59.530 - 00:48:14.899

there and move to another building. And as a matter of fact, I can remember uh uh walking uh between Fong Tea and Boise blueprint. Uh and I'm sure Boise blueprint didn't know that, that, you know, you were able to do that but it was through the

00:48:14.909 - 00:48:33.139

gold bins. Uh And I, I think that, uh, you know, from what I've read about the tong wars, they were done intentionally, you know, so that people had a means of a means of escape and, and, you know, there were, there were worries, you know, that,

00:48:33.149 - 00:48:45.419

you know, that there, there were danger from the rival Tongs and that type of thing. I, I there might, I don't know, in the Boise history you'd have to look very, very hard to find. I think there was one sling that I, that I'm that I'm

00:48:45.429 - 00:49:01.739

aware of but, uh but that, but uh I remember that about those old buildings about being connected by those coal bins. Uh Yeah. And so I think that the uh memory serves, the tong wars were more, you know, in terms of violent encounters and deaths and

00:49:01.750 - 00:49:17.739

things like that, much more severe up in the, in the Boise Basin around Idaho City and that sort of thing. And in in other communities like Portland and things like that. Yeah. Um uh we were members of the, of the hip sing tongue and, and I

00:49:17.750 - 00:49:39.760

know the hip sing tong and the hop sing to, you know, those were the, the tongues for transport, trans transported organizations from China to this country. And in uh in China they were mostly familial uh types of things, you know, uh fraternal or fraternal things that

00:49:39.770 - 00:49:57.500

had to do with family now could be members in Tongs or was it only men? Uh you know, I think, I think it was only men but, but the Tongs when they came to this country, country, um they kind of will it all the authority over

00:49:57.510 - 00:50:15.979

the Chinese community. Uh There were six of them, they were called the six companies and, and uh kind of like the five families kind of like that. Yeah. And, and they, uh and they, and they kind of uh they kind of got involved in, in things

00:50:15.989 - 00:50:35.850

other than fraternal type. They, there were more than just fraternal organizations. They, they, they kind of had control over the Chinese community, uh finances, that type of thing. They got involved, I believe in some criminal aspects. Um but they were mostly benevolent or, but they were,

00:50:35.860 - 00:50:50.870

but they were, but they were pretty powerful in this country. The six companies were pretty, pretty powerful, I wonder, you know, you mentioned, I think actually your brother Bill mentioned that um your grandfather maybe was uh was he president of the hip? To he was, yeah,

00:50:51.290 - 00:51:07.520

he was and, and, and as was my dad, right? You know. Um Yeah, yeah. As a matter of fact, you know, in the, I remember a story my mom told me once about how she had 10, saved $10,000. And of course, in those days, everybody kept

00:51:07.530 - 00:51:25.800

things in cash burled away. And then she discovered that my dad had used it to support uh indigent people in the Chinese community, buying toilet paper and things like that for the hip sing tong and things like that and people and, and I remember, you know,

00:51:25.810 - 00:51:39.719

she was just in tears because, you know, that money that she had saved was used but that, you know, he was just the leader of that community. And so that's what he did. He wanted to help out and get out, he wanted to help out. So,

00:51:39.739 - 00:51:54.389

uh anyway, uh like I say, we, you know, we're uh we thought we were poor but we never really wanted for anything. The kids didn't, you know, um you know, you know, I, I, you know, the clothes that we were bought and stuff like that were

00:51:54.399 - 00:52:09.649

always, you know, nice clothes and things like that. It wasn't always what I wanted. But, you know, we're like most kids, you know. Uh but uh but, you know, we, we never, we grew up never wanting for anything really you were, you were born in 44

00:52:09.659 - 00:52:24.679

is that right? 44. Yeah. Ok. So, you know, when you were still a small child, you know, the communist take over China took place. So, did you notice a difference because I, I was speaking with your brother, Bill? I think he mentioned that your father's business

00:52:24.689 - 00:52:40.790

really began to decline in the 19 fifties. It did, it did and it did because uh there are 22 reasons why uh you know, one was the fact that the communists had taken over China and it was difficult, you know, to uh to get the herbs

00:52:40.800 - 00:53:02.770

out of China. Uh There, there, the original great grandfather uh C K had a brother Charlie and Charlie stayed in China. C he came over here and Charlie was the one that sent the, the, the herbs I see uh from China to America. But by the

00:53:02.780 - 00:53:19.580

time the 19 fifties come up, uh you know, arrive, the communists had taken over. And so it was difficult to get the, the herbs out. That was one reason. And then the other thing was, you know, that the herbology became less popular as modern medicine, made

00:53:19.590 - 00:53:38.300

it advance and stuff like that. Herbology became less uh less desired. And so, you know, that that was, you know, a reason for the dwindling of, of it as well as herbs. So did you notice at that time, kind of a change in your economic circumstances?

00:53:38.489 - 00:53:57.139

No, I didn't. No, I didn't. Um, um, no, because it just seemed like, just seemed like we always did just fine. Um, uh, you know, as I mentioned before, you know, I always thought we were poor and then later discovered that, you know, that they were

00:53:57.149 - 00:54:15.070

very, my folks were very good savers and so we weren't, really, weren't poor at all. Um, frugal but not poor. Maybe. What's that? Frugal? Frugal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so what, what led to the decline of your father's business then? And the decision to relocate to

00:54:15.080 - 00:54:31.770

California? Well, what led to that? Yeah. Well, it was mainly because of the fact that, you know, the business that had declined because they couldn't get the herbs. Uh, and it just seemed like the timing was, you know, was such that it was, you know, time

00:54:31.780 - 00:54:51.870

to close up shop. Oh, via this, this picture of my great grandfather was, was in, in the museum. And that's how we got this, this, this picture. Uh, have you ever seen any other photographs of him? I don't believe I've ever seen another one that, you

00:54:51.889 - 00:55:09.590

know, the, the, they also have the one he had somebody do a, uh, charcoal rendering of this, of this picture. Have you seen that? It looks very, doesn't look much like this. But I remember that was the one that hung up in my dad's office with

00:55:09.600 - 00:55:27.520

that rendering. And I always thought, oh, man, he was kind of not a very good looking person. And then, and then he's here, he's a pretty handsome guy, pretty handsome guy. So that's, that's my, my great grandfather. That's C K. And that's the only picture we

00:55:27.530 - 00:55:46.540

have of my grandfather. We called him. Uh, but, uh, that's, that's Herbert. Herbert. And then that's my dad. That's your dad. That's my dad. Gerald Gerald. Did he go by Jerry or was he, he just went by Gerald and everybody called him doc. I, you know,

00:55:46.550 - 00:56:05.350

I uh yeah, I just remember and we had a lot of um family friends, you know, that were not Chinese, they were not Chinese. Um That was my mom. So were these family photographs? Then aside from maybe the one of your great grand, that's a historical

00:56:05.360 - 00:56:32.459

photograph? Yeah, that's my, that's my uh my uh dad's uh calligraphy and all the, all the, the calligraphy on the boxes uh of verbs in the, in the, in the uh the role my dad's calligraphy. My mom and my dad uh were married through an arranged

00:56:32.929 - 00:56:50.280

marriage. And uh my mom came from the northern part of China and my dad came from the southern part and they didn't even speak the same dialect. My mom spoke uh uh Mandarin and my dad, you know, spoke Cantonese and, and, and you know, the the

00:56:50.290 - 00:57:10.209

languages are like two separate languages. Uh And so shortly after they were married, my dad brought my mom to America. So she couldn't really communicate with my dad nor could she communicate with anybody around. So, she was pretty lonely. But, but she, but they became very,

00:57:10.219 - 00:57:26.040

very acclimated, you know, and you can see my dad here, you know, wearing his hat, you know, in his suit and this is my mom and this is my brother, Bill and that's me. That's a beautiful photograph. Yeah. These are all, these are just kind of

00:57:26.050 - 00:57:56.489

old, old photographs. These are great. Yeah, very nice. Yeah. Anyway, um, thank you for showing me those. Yeah. Um, I, I don't know much more to talk about. Um, um, you know, my, you know, my, uh, my, uh, life here in Boise has been kind of

00:57:56.500 - 00:58:11.209

filled with, uh, uh, memories of a really, really good job. You know, I, I, uh, I took the teaching, I loved it. Uh, I love the kids. That's what I wanted to talk to you about. Next was your, was your life and your profession, you know,

00:58:11.219 - 00:58:23.969

would you, you mentioned that you went to, um, uh, Boise Junior College and then you went on, I guess it was later in life. You went to, uh, the college of? Yeah. Yeah, I went to Boise Junior College for one year and that's because, uh, I

00:58:23.979 - 00:58:37.649

was able, you know, I was able, I was working at a grocery store called the Idaho Food King. Both my brother and I both started working in the grocery store at a very young age. I was 15 and I started out, you know, they paid me

00:58:37.659 - 00:58:59.139

a dollar an hour. Uh, and, uh, there is, the grocers were members of a union called the retail clerks. And it was a very strong union. Uh, and so your raises were, uh, were dictated by the amount of time that you were at in the job.

00:58:59.399 - 00:59:22.729

And so, even though I only started at a dollar an hour, uh you know, the, the um the owners of the Food King were basque uh uh people, um there was uh John and uh his brother and another uh friend named John Oga, all very hard

00:59:22.739 - 00:59:38.010

working guys. But they realized very soon that they, if you hired somebody smart that you could train them and you could get good service out of them. I mean, we were making a dollar an hour and we were, you know, I started out just boxing groceries

00:59:38.020 - 00:59:52.379

but it wasn't very long before I was checking. I was doing working produce uh uh working in the grocery store. So by the time I was a junior in high school, I was making German wages. I was making the same amount of money uh that uh

00:59:52.820 - 01:00:09.949

that are grown person working in the grocery store was making sounds like that. That was pretty good, pretty good. I was driving a pretty good car. I had 1957 Chevy to Coop. That's, that's an iconic car. Too. The 57 Chevy, I bought my clothes at the

01:00:10.500 - 01:00:25.560

store and made enough money to, saved enough money where I thought I was gonna be able to pay for two years of college. Blew through it in a year at Idaho. And then, and then came back and because of the fact the store was still there,

01:00:26.000 - 01:00:48.280

I would work well, I work, uh, 35 hours a week, um, and go to school. So I went to school at junior college and worked at the grocery store and then I got a scholarship help to go to the College of Idaho. And, uh, uh, continued

01:00:48.290 - 01:01:01.610

to work in the grocery store all the time that I was at the College of Idaho. I started out in, in premed, you know, thinking that I was going to be a doctor. You just, I was gonna be a traditional doc doctor. But, uh, um, you

01:01:01.620 - 01:01:20.199

know, I ended up, you know, life kind of inter intervened and I ended up getting married and having a, uh, a child and, and it just seemed all of that time going to school just didn't seem to make sense. So, uh, so I ended up, you

01:01:20.209 - 01:01:37.540

don't recognize that number. So I ended up uh, uh switching majors and, uh, and I had no idea what I wanted to do. What I wanted to do was your interest in potentially pursuing medicine was that generated, it was, you know, I just did that not

01:01:37.550 - 01:01:54.320

so much because I just thought it, that's as good as anything and, and, uh, you know, my, I don't know, they, my mom seemed to think that was a good idea. So I started it out in Premed and, and, um, and then, um, when I decided

01:01:54.330 - 01:02:10.340

that I wanted to do something else I had no idea what to do. And so I, I ended up taking, uh, something called the Minnesota Multi Personality in inventory, the M MP I or something like that. And, uh, and it basically is a forced choice kind

01:02:10.350 - 01:02:23.719

of exam where you kind of explore things that you have might have a talent in. And one of the top things that came out was teaching, thought that that would, you know, that would be a good job. But I never even thought about that before. But

01:02:23.729 - 01:02:37.159

the more I thought about it I thought, well, that's something I can do. I can graduate in four years, you know. Uh, it was kind of imperative, you know, I was trying to, I had a young family and it was kind of imperative. I thought that

01:02:37.169 - 01:02:56.090

to get a job. And so, uh, I end up switching majors and, and, uh, yeah, I took a lot of credit hours, you know, just in order to get done in two years. But I was able to, uh, this was your master's, my, I, I was

01:02:56.100 - 01:03:14.870

able to do my undergraduate in, at the College of Idaho in two years after I went to Idaho and, and Boise's junior college. So I was able to graduate in four years and, uh, and then I started teaching and, you know, I had, uh, did you

01:03:14.879 - 01:03:27.199

major in English? I, I did, I majored in English and again, it was because at the time when, when I was first went into it, they needed English teachers. Not because I had an interest in it or anything like that. I thought, well, I might as

01:03:27.209 - 01:03:51.340

well get, go into something where I can, where there's, uh, uh, a job demand. And then, you know, when I ended up graduating, um, I started teaching and my first teaching contract was for $4800 and I was making $6000 working in the grocery store. You know,

01:03:51.350 - 01:04:09.219

and so, but, but, you know, Travis, I thought I had died and gone to heaven because, you know, when you work in a grocery store, you work Saturday or Sunday every holiday, you don't know whether you're gonna get off at 10 o'clock at night or seven

01:04:09.229 - 01:04:23.909

o'clock. Uh, and, you know, just depending on whatever the schedule is. And all of a sudden I had a job where I could work five days a week and I had Saturday and Sunday off. I thought I had died and gone down. But, of course, you

01:04:23.919 - 01:04:40.110

know, in order to survive, I had to continue working in the grocery store while I was teaching and of course, work in the summers. You know, how old were you around this time? Like 22 22. I first started 22 when I first graduated from college. So,

01:04:40.120 - 01:04:55.129

you know, I continued working in the grocery store evenings, uh, evenings and, and weekends and, and then, and of course, all summer and he had a young child and then eventually those grocery, the grocery store was sold. And so I tried to go work for Albert

01:04:55.199 - 01:05:14.090

and, but, but Alberson isn't interested, they're only interested in Albertson's. And so, you know, they wanted me to devote my life to, you know, working in the grocery store. And I, that wasn't my goal. I wanted to teach and so it eventually became such a conflict.

01:05:14.100 - 01:05:34.110

I, I just gave it up because it was just a big argument about how much I was going to work. And, and, um, and so, uh, the first, uh, I think the very first year, uh, I, I tried to, uh, I tried to write curriculum, you

01:05:34.120 - 01:05:56.820

know, uh, for the school district and didn't seem to make much money doing that. So then I tried working at the Boise Interagency Fire Boise Interagency Fire Center out there writing curriculum for them out there. And that was ok. But eventually, you know, I got together

01:05:56.830 - 01:06:11.330

with one of my teaching friends and, and we thought, what the heck can we do where we don't have to go beg for a job every summer. So, uh, so, so he said, well, we both had Reynolds at the time and he said, well, we could

01:06:11.340 - 01:06:25.780

paint, we could paint houses. And I thought, well, that, that would be a good thing to do in the summer time. And so I remember, you know, going out and people would go bid these jobs and people say, can you do that? And we go, yeah,

01:06:25.790 - 01:06:36.989

we can do that. And then we'd go and find, say, how do we do that, find out how to do that. But it turned out to be a good job for us. And so for 30 some years, we, we painted houses in the summer time and

01:06:37.659 - 01:06:56.729

made enough, you know, to supplement our income. And then eventually, you know, you know, the teaching salaries got better. I remember, you know, just thinking early, if I only could make $10,000 if I could make $10,000 and I'd be ok. And then we started making $10,000

01:06:56.739 - 01:07:09.929

and thought if I only could make $20,000 and eventually, you know, eventually got to a point where we could make a, make a living. Uh, and even to this day, you know, teaching is not a job person wants to do, uh, if they want to, you

01:07:09.939 - 01:07:25.419

know, get rich, but I was well suited for it. You know, I, I, I like the kids and I, I started out teaching in junior high and, uh, teaching English, teaching English and, and I, and I just love the kids and they liked me, you know,

01:07:25.429 - 01:07:40.030

I was a little bit goofy and so, you know, they, they liked me and, and so, uh, it was a nice marriage and so, you know, for 34 years, you know, I, I was able to do it and, and, uh, and enjoyed it. You junior high

01:07:40.040 - 01:07:55.699

that long? Yeah, I did, I, you know, for five years, uh, I went through a period of time in the seventies when I thought I just gotta make more money. And I remember going down to the administration office and talking to Dean Chatburn who then was

01:07:55.709 - 01:08:13.729

the head of secondary education. I said, you know, I'm gonna have to leave this job if I can't make more money. And so they actually created a job for me. Um, they, uh, created a job called the English consultant. And originally it was, uh, for half

01:08:13.739 - 01:08:26.919

a day, I would teach half a day and then I would go down and work in the administration office for half a day. And, uh, after the first year they thought, oh, you're doing such a good job. Let's just what we'll do is what you teach

01:08:26.930 - 01:08:43.089

one period and then the rest of the time you'll be an English consultant. And, uh, and so I did that and then after a while I said, well, you would just be an English consultant, you know. But, but, and I, I did that for about five

01:08:43.100 - 01:08:58.020

years but I didn't like it. Uh, you know, um, teachers do not want to be supervised, they really don't want to, they want to be in their classroom and teach your class, you know, teach your kids. And, and when I got into that job, uh, there

01:08:58.029 - 01:09:14.919

was a humanities was a really big topic and, uh we created a program called American Humanities and they put me in charge of that and then I worked for uh a supervisor by the name of the Jeannette Stivers. And so at that time, you know, we

01:09:14.930 - 01:09:31.660

kind of realized that our English program was so disjointed that teachers were teaching whatever they wanted to teach. And so we needed to, we needed to kind of make it sequential so that, you know, people weren't teaching the same things every year. And so that we

01:09:31.669 - 01:09:46.290

could say, ok, we concentrate on these skills in elementary school and do this in high school and make sure that we're in the high school that, you know, that, you know, people aren't just teaching the same, their favorite novel, but that they're, you know, they're teaching

01:09:46.299 - 01:09:59.600

one that, you know, that is uh one that we think that they should be, be doing well in order to do that, we had to completely reorganize everything. And, and, and I realized even as a young administrator that the only way that, you know, we're ever

01:09:59.609 - 01:10:11.750

gonna get it to work is for the teachers to buy in. You can't just sit there and go, ok, you gotta do this, you, it just won't be successful. So we just started having all these seminars where people get together and discuss what are we doing,

01:10:11.759 - 01:10:25.990

you know, and where, where do we want to put these basic skills and, and we got that done, but it was just such hard work and it was just like pulling teeth. And I realized, you know, that I didn't love it, right? And I had loved

01:10:26.000 - 01:10:40.439

teaching and I didn't love it. So after early, after about four years, I went to them and I said, well, I know you created this job for me, but uh I want to go back to the classroom and I remember them uh sharing with me uh

01:10:42.490 - 01:10:56.819

that people didn't do that. So, you know, they said, you know, you're the youngest administrator we ever hired, we were invested in you and you can, if you want to, you can, you can go to the vice principal route. You can be a supervisor here in

01:10:56.830 - 01:11:13.359

central staff or something like, but you're not going back classroom. So I stuck it out in another two years. And then after that last two years, I told, no, I'm going back to the going back to the classroom. So at that time, um they need an

01:11:13.370 - 01:11:27.600

athletic director at, uh, Hillside Junior High. And that's where I had my office when I was a consultant where I teach at one class and then I would have my office the rest of the day. Uh, so I went back as an athletic director and so

01:11:27.609 - 01:11:44.259

I, I went back and I did that for 17 years in addition to teaching. And, um, and they, they let me go back, you know. But, but, uh, they were, they weren't happy about it at all, but I, I take it back to the classroom was

01:11:44.270 - 01:11:56.049

the athletic directorship. Yeah, but I, but I was happy, I, you know, I, I just like being with those kids and so turned out to be a really nice career for me and, and, you know, to this day, you know, I, you know, when I see

01:11:56.060 - 01:12:11.250

those kids, you know, and it's just such a joy, you know, to give them a hug and, you know, I met a couple, my dentist was one of my former students. Uh you know, um I remember uh I broke off a tooth one time and they

01:12:11.259 - 01:12:30.410

said, well, you know, you're gonna need an implant. So, so uh I was referred to another doctor who was another student of mine. And I remember sitting in that chair and he said, well, you know how much it's gonna cost? You don't you Mr Kong? And

01:12:30.419 - 01:12:48.500

I said, I, I don't know, I heard about maybe four or $5000. He says, no, he says I'm doing it for nothing. And uh, he did, he, he ended up charging me, uh uh I think he charged me 100 and $70 for it though. The, the

01:12:48.509 - 01:13:02.459

post that they put in and that's because that's how much he had to pay for it. He did it for free. And uh, yeah, and, and I'll be on it. It happened again and I need another one. So I go back and he did it again.

01:13:02.470 - 01:13:15.069

The same thing again. I told him, I said, you know, Cole I could afford to pay you for that. He says you got a rich, uh you got a rich dentist for a doctor. And, and he said, he said, you know what he says, I just

01:13:15.080 - 01:13:30.520

want to repay you for uh what you did in the classroom. So, so, you know, I, I've got some nice benefits from, from that teaching and, and uh, so so often, you know, running into people, you know, and having them tell me that it made their

01:13:30.529 - 01:13:43.919

day to see him, you know, it, what more can a person ask for, for a legacy? It sounds like he really changed a lot of lives. A lot of people made an imprint, I think. Yeah, they made an imprint on me as well. So, yeah, it

01:13:43.930 - 01:13:55.129

was a good, it was a good job for me and uh I think to stay 34 years, you have to love it. You know, and I can tell the way that you talk about it is that, that you loved it and it sounds like your students

01:13:55.140 - 01:14:10.319

loved you. Yeah, I did. I liked it. I liked it a lot and, uh, you know, it's, uh, I don't know. I, uh, it's just by luck really that I ended up as a teacher really. And so it sounds like it suited you very well suited

01:14:10.330 - 01:14:32.200

me, suited me very, very nicely. Um, so, um, anyway, that's kind of pretty much about my life. I'm, uh, you know, living out my retirement, although the, the teaching salary never was very much. I think at the very top I was only making like 50 $57,000

01:14:32.209 - 01:14:48.950

or something like that. The retirement, a public employee retirement system, it's almost the same as what I was making. And of course, you know, your needs are a lot less when you, you know, if you live your life, right, and you grow up and you don't

01:14:49.750 - 01:15:03.810

incur a lot of debt and you pay off things. Uh, uh, I don't know. It seems like we, we can do whatever we want to do just that we can't do everything. So, retirement's been good to you. It's been great. Yeah, that's fantastic. It's been great.

01:15:03.819 - 01:15:18.100

I'm glad to hear that. Well, so, uh, I don't know if there's anything else on your, on your list of things that you would like to hear or I have one last question. Ok, we've been at it for an hour and 15 minutes. So I, I'll,

01:15:18.109 - 01:15:34.750

uh, I'll let you go here because I know that you probably have better things to do. Uh, enjoy that retirement. Right. But, um, if you had, you know, a wish list of what interviews, what, you know, these interviews, like with your brother and with yourself and

01:15:34.759 - 01:15:50.950

the other folks uh around, around Boise and in the Chinese Chinese American community, you know, what if you had a wish list as to what would come of the interviews and the research that we're doing as far as whether it's an exhibition or a documentary or

01:15:50.959 - 01:16:06.600

publication or public art or anything like that, what would you like to see come from, from this work? Well, well, I don't know, I, I uh really hadn't thought much about that. I just thought maybe I could help add something, you know, to the history of

01:16:06.609 - 01:16:25.490

the Chinese in this area by doing this by doing this interview. So you've certainly done that. Yeah. So, you know, if, if, if it benefits some people to hear about, you know, my experiences, I think that that's great. Um But um uh as far as I'm

01:16:25.500 - 01:16:41.930

concerned, you know, I, I just wanted to do something to add to, you know, that legacy, you know, and uh uh you know, if, if people listen to this thing and, and they get something from them then then. That's great. Great. Well, thank you so much

01:16:41.939 - 01:16:53.459

for doing this. Yeah. Well, you're welcome Travis. I don't have any other questions, so that'll conclude. Ok. Yeah, I, I don't know. I, I think we kind of covered most things about me anyway. All right.