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OK. All right. So this is a video and audio recorded oral history interview conducted the 19th day of April the year 2023. Uh The interviewer is myself Travis Jeffres History Programs manager with the Department of Arts and History for the City of Boise. Here, I'm here

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on site in City Hall in Boise, Idaho. And this interview forms part of the project documenting Chinese history in Greater Boise through oral history. The interviewee who joins us has provided a signed legal release and I have also signed that document which I have here in

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front of me. So thank you Dr Gao for providing that. No problem. The primary purpose of the interview is to discuss uh Boise's history. Um Idaho's Chinese and Chinese American populations, both past and present and then just a couple of reminders about the oral history process.

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So my role is primarily just to listen to pose some questions and then I mostly sit back and sort of let you take those questions and answer them how you wish to. So I don't actually, you know, oral historians are typically sort of a discouraged from

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interjecting their own thoughts, opinions onto the matters and we just basically are here to ask questions and to give you kind of a platform to speak. So you'll forgive me in advance if it seems like I'm being kind of quiet or the conversation is kind of

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one sided, that's kind of by design. OK. So I just wanted you to know that. So I won't give a lot of oral feedback during the, the process. Uh But I will give some, some non oral feedback, like nodding my head and smiling and things like

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that. Uh But that's just all a normal part of the oral history process. Now, I think it's important at this point, you know, that I remind you that uh as an interviewee, somebody who's volunteered to um partake in this process is that you do have rights

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and I just want to remind you of those. So you have the right to pause or stop the interview at any time and you can withdraw from this project at any time that's completely within your right. And you have the right of course, to refuse to

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answer certain questions if you prefer not to answer a certain question. Uh There shouldn't be any surprises because we went over potential questions in our pre interview. But if you're not comfortable at any point, you just let me know and we'll just move on to the

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next question. OK. OK. Thank you. I understand it. Great. Um And then finally, you have the right to review uh and edit transcripts and, or restrict the use of the interviews and the transcripts derived thereof. Ok. Any questions Doctor Gao? No, I'm good. Ok, so with

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that, we'll get started if that sounds ok to you. Yes, please. Ok. So the interview is taking place uh virtually via Zoom and I'm joined by our interview. E can you please state and spell your full name for the record? My name is Yong Gao. First name Y

00:03:04.470 - 00:03:23.800

O N G, last name Gao. Thank you, Doctor G A O. And where are you joining us from today? Uh From home, actually. Very nice. In Boise. Yeah, in Boise, in Boise, Idaho. Ok. Um So if you're comfortable, can you state and spell the names of your relatives?

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Maybe you don't have to spell all of them but if you could state the names of your relatives such as your parents, grandparents, uh siblings, that sort of thing. Oh, ok. Should I also spell my husband's name if you want to? Yeah. Oh, ok. Ok. Uh

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uh my husband's name is Kai Jiang Guo. Uh K A I J I A N G first name, uh last name G U O, my son, Alex Guo, his, you know, last first name A L E X, last name G U O uh my mom um Qingzhi He

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so first name K Q I N G H E uh last name uh H E oh Q I N G uh uh G Z H I um last name H E um my dad um first uh Zixiu Gao so first name Z I um X I U, last

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name G A O. Um I do have uh several siblings. My brother, um older brother uh Wei Gao, so first name Wei um um W E I last name G A O, uh younger brother Qiang Gao. Uh first name Qiang, Q I A N G. It's like American Chung like Chung

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kind of. Yeah, last name uh G A O. Then my uh my older sister um Tao Tao, Tao Gao. So um first name T A O last name uh G A O. Yeah, that's those are my relatives or close relatives. Yeah. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Um

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So when did you first come to, to Boise or to Idaho? Doctor Gao? I, I did not hear your last question. Sorry, I think that we may have um I think the, the feed had interrupted for a second there. I just asked when you first came

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to Boise or to Idaho. Um I came to uh Boise in 2008. Uh April. Ok. Well not April so August. August of 2008. So you've been in Boise about 15 years now it seems like. Yeah. Yeah. And have you noticed any changes in Boise during that time

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during that time or through, from that, from that time till now? From that time until now. Ok. Uh Yes, I do see more people, more people, more people. So the the city is growing. Uh A lot of uh people came from out state even, you know,

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for where I work. Right. BSU I think we have more out state University uh you know, students. Yeah. So I do see a lot more people and downtown area. I see a, you know, a lot of new buildings, you know, hotels. Uh yeah, stuff like

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that. Uh-huh. Great. Yeah. And I notice that people point out to me all the time that you see more and more cranes all the time across the city, a lot of construction going on, a lot of building. And as you mentioned, certainly a lot of folks

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moving to Boise. So um so you came in 2008 and did you come, you came from China? Um originally from China but I, you know, I studied at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champagne for several years. So I got my degree, Ph.D., there. Then I,

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you know, I came to BSU Boise State because I got a job at Boise State University. Yeah. Ok. So before Illinois, um where did you come from in China? Which province or, or part Shanghai? Shanghai? Uh-huh. Yeah. And is that the is the same

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true for your relatives as well such as your parents, grandparents? Are they from Shanghai? No, my my parents, they uh you know, China is very big. We have so many different province, right? So, yeah, um they lived in, they live, they still live in um like,

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Xi'an you know, it's Shaanxi province so they live in Xi'an. So, you know, where you have the Underground Warrior that, you know, a tourist site um for Qin Dynasty. So um so that, that is the area that they live. But, you know, my parents are originally

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from, you know, no, they, they were not originally from Xi'an, they, they came from Hunan Province. So it's just, yeah, a different state in China. Yeah. Right. And I think that um kind of what most Americans image of China is, is probably relatively monolithic. But as

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you mentioned that it's, it's a very, very large country and it's very diverse in and of itself. There are a lot of different dialects and even distinct languages within China. It is my understanding and a lot of different provinces and those provinces may contain distinct ethnic

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groups for instance. So it's very sort of um diverse and heterogeneous. I would say, would you agree with that? Could you speak a little? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. You know, my, my um family, you know, we all are like, we have a Han, you know, in terms

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of race and ethnicity, we consider, you know, we are like Han, you know, um yeah,. H A N? Yeah, H A N. But there are, you know, of course, other uh other different kind of uh um you know, like, uh you know, race and ethnicity groups a lot actually. Yeah, but

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I in China also in, in, in, in addition to you know, we have different race and ethnicity groups, we also have um like different areas, have different cultures. So for Xi'an, both Xi'an and you know Hunan province, right Xi'an and Shaanxi province, um they have quite

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different culture compared to Shanghai where I live. Yeah, Shanghai is considered it as a South China in south east China, Xi'an and Hunan, they considered as like middle uh like middle side. Yeah. Yeah. Middle area. Now you're probably familiar with this Dr Gao, but many of the folks

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who who immigrated to Idaho and into the Western United States in the 1800s. So in the 1860s, 1870s, during the era of discovery of gold and silver, et cetera throughout the West, which drew a lot of immigration from around the world, frankly. Many

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of those people who originated in China came from one particular province and that was the Guangdong province if I'm saying that correctly. Yes, Guangdong province. Guangdong. Yeah, it's like in South, you know, or not just mainly Guangdong province, I think maybe Fujian Province too. Um but

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but most from Guangdong province and that those areas are considered as like South China. Yeah. Ok. And now have you noticed like just in Boise or in Idaho or maybe throughout the American West if you're familiar enough to speak to that? Is that has that dynamic

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changed? And do you now see more immigration uh from other parts of China? Definitely. In the past, it's mainly from, as you said, you know, from Guangdong province. And I think um after China's like, um we, we had China's like cultural revolution or stuff like that,

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right? So after that um um around eighties, right? Uh from there, then we have a lot actually from um from uh Fujian province. I see. Yeah. So those, those people are the one who came to the US mainly doing uh like restaurant, you know, business. Yeah,

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then, then, then, you know, after China's um economic reform, right? Um then we have a, we, you know, have starting to, to, to have a lot of uh uh like a high educated immigrants. So they basically got their, like, um their, at least the bachelor degree

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in China in very good universities in China, right? Um then they, they, they, you know, came to us to study uh you know, their, their uh more advanced degree like phd or something in different areas. So, yeah, I do see a huge difference even right now

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in Boise, um you know, we typically will have uh when we have uh like kind of social events, we can see, you know, people, most of them actually are, are like high educated immigrants. Um because those people who are doing um doing like a restaurant business,

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right? They're busy during the, you know, our gathering so they don't have time to really, you know, really come. Yeah. Right. And so what do you think accounts for that sort of that increase in, in diversity or that increase in immigration from, from a greater number

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of regions and provinces in China? Um over the last, you know, 30 over the last generation or so, is it because people are becoming more highly educated as you mentioned, or is it because of a relaxation of restrictions or greater economic opportunities? Anything like that? I

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do think it's real, you know, relaxing of the uh restrictions, you know, at least from China's part and also U.S. part, I think it's easier uh for, for Chinese to get a visa to enter into the into us, right? And then before that's one reason, another

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reason is even for Chinese government, I think they, they open their board, right? They they opened their border, they not really open but you know, they they allow people to um to, to come to study in the US. They are actually in even for high educated

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people. I think it it's like encouraged, you know, if you are good enough, you know, to come. So that's one reason, another reason is definitely the academic um not academic, the the economic opportunities. Yeah, people wanted to have better life uh in the past even when,

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when you know, when I came, I came to the US in 2002. OK. So even at that time in Shanghai, Shanghai is a very advanced city in China, ok. Even uh during that period of time, like, you know, uh early 2000, it's still, it's still

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the, the most advanced, you know, city uh or economic body in, in Chinese, you know, in China. Um you know, people there are considered, you know, relatively richer than other uh you know, people, than people in other areas. Right? Even then people still think if you

00:14:07.570 - 00:14:24.580

can go to US right at that time. It's, it's just so good. It's just, you know, you can change your life to better, you know, um better situation or everything like that. So uh Chinese people are really like American America and American people that's, you know,

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that's friendly. I don't know if this situation changed now now nowadays, but at least in the past it's definitely a situation. People think that US has a lot of opportunities. Economic. Yeah. Gold, like a gold, right on the ground. Yeah, like that kind of situation. Yeah. Uh

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yeah, I, I think that's very interesting, you said so certainly economic opportunity. But also it seemed like there might have been sort of a, at least for some people like a cultural connection there to a desire to, to immigrate to the United States because as you

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mentioned, that the people are friendly and that there's an affinity there. Yeah, definitely, you know, Chinese people always think that, you know, again, US has a lot of opportunities. It's not just for uh uh for economic reasons but financial, it's just, you know, a lot of

00:15:13.630 - 00:15:30.780

opportunities that you can advance your career, right? Stuff like that. So less restrict restriction but you know, more freedom. So that's, you know, at least Chinese people think about, you know, about US in the past. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that was interesting that you mentioned that

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about a perceived, you know, Chinese affinity for, for us, culture and people and that sort of thing because it wasn't always that way for sure. I mean, obviously there was some in the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act, right? There was actually quite a bit of, of

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discrimination against Chinese immigrants and a lot of violence, particularly on the west coast. So, yeah, it certainly seems like things have shifted quite a bit, at least in recent years for the better it seems. I think it's because the two governments, right, Chinese government and uh

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US government, you know, they have a good relationship, you know, had a good relationship in the past, you know, um several decades, I would say at least 20 you know, 20 years. Uh so that, you know, um at least the Chinese uh government at that time,

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you know, over the past 20 years, they, they, they, you know, even the officers there, you could tell that they, you know, admire US, you know, system, you know, they, everything that you in the US is more advanced, you know, they have a lot to learn

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from the US, you know, from the system, from stuff and also high, highly educated people, right? They are all pro US. Yeah, they're all pro us. They, you know, the talk, everything in China is about US. It's always like a positive side, stuff like that. And

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where universities, American universities, a big part of that and in particular, you could maybe tie it into your own experience. Was it the American University system that, that drew you to, to be interested in coming to the United States? Yeah, definitely, you know, we came that

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um it's because um you know, there are several reasons, right? Um for, for uh during the last 20 years that um because I think, you know, Chinese government somehow uh of course, they want to learn from the US, right? So they encourage their students come out

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right to come out to the US, to study. Um so that's, you know, in, you know, in the past when I applied for um like even passport, right? Not everyone can get passport in China in the past then after I I applied, right? Uh you have

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to have some kind of letters from your uh where you work or where you study, you know, to, to, to, you know, guarantee that you, you are a good citizen or something that in, in the US, right? So oh in in, in China, so those kind

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of situation, but later later on the Chinese um like, you know, government because of Chinese government, you know, some kind kind of policies, universities in China, right? They, if their professors want to get promoted, they need to have uh you know, study abroad kind of uh

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experience. So that actually book, you know, like they will the university will provide um provide financial, you know, uh support for, for their um you know, uh faculties or their students, right, come to the US to study. So that's when the whole like um study in

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the US, you know, this, this kind of, you know situation boomed. Yeah, that, that's, that's really is uh I see. Yeah, thank you. Um Well, I would like to talk a little bit. So you grew up in, in Shanghai, you mentioned I, I did not grow

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up in Shanghai. I grew up in, in another province in China. It's Gansu province. It's, it, it is one of the poorest province in China. Uh I grew up there, then I moved to Xi'an, my parents moved to Xi'an then then you know, I, I started

00:19:03.199 - 00:19:21.829

in Wuhan uh then you know, then I worked in Shanghai. So that's, you know, my experience in China, I just travel in China. Yeah, a lot immigrants you know, from, from one province to another. Yeah, I see. I see. OK, now what, what kind of profession

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or occupation was your family involved in growing up? My mom is a teacher, uh high school teacher, math teacher. Um, my dad was a, was a, uh, a military officer. Um, so I think it's doing some kind of management. I have no idea. Uh, yeah. But,

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but, yeah, so my, um, brother, uh, older brother, my older sister is also a teacher, high school teacher right now. Um, my older brother is, uh, is, like high education, you know, working high education, like management, stuff like that. Um, like it's in the education board.

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Yeah. But for high education, yeah. Um, my, uh, my younger brother is in, uh, like, uh, is in a financial, uh, department for one city, you know, in China. Yeah. So, I see. So, are you the only one of your immediate family that, um, emigrated to

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the US? Yes. Ok. And so you said that was in 2002? And that was to attend the University of Illinois at Urbana Champagne? Yes. Now, what were you studying there? I study. Ok. So my background, as I said, I was a, you know, a physician when

00:20:38.109 - 00:20:52.989

I was in China. Um, then my, you know, my friend, um, you know, came to the US and, you know, she, she said, oh, why don't you study you, why don't you come out too? Right. Because there are a lot of opportunities, you know, stuff like

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that. And also study is not difficult and you get paid like, you know, um, assistantship or something, right. Um, to be able to, to, to come. So it's, you know, life is easier. So when, at that time I was, you know, um, um a medical doctor

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then, you know, it's just so busy. I did not like that. Right. So I studied, started to uh to, to study like uh sports medicine, you know, about sports injury, stuff like that. So I started, you know, sports injury, you know, kind of treatment stuff. Uh

00:21:25.239 - 00:21:43.869

you know, those kind of uh programs are typically um located in, in Sports University in China. So that's why I went to uh Shanghai Sports University to study uh sports medicine. But at my third year uh of, you know, in the program, I met my former

00:21:43.880 - 00:22:03.119

uh former um former advisor who was, who was a professor at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champagne. So, you know, his area is statistics and measurement. So he just, you know, told me if you came to the US, you will have a lot of opportunities right there.

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So I just, oh yeah, if I can combine sports medicine and measurement together, right? That might be a good option. So that's why I studied GRE and TOEFL and you know, applied for University of Illinois and other universities. Then I got admitted and then,

00:22:18.849 - 00:22:36.530

but you know, the the I studied like a stat stat and measurement in kinesiology because, you know, I was thinking about kinesiology, exercise science, you know, and uh sports injury related area, right? So I wanted to combine, you know, measurement. Yeah. And, uh, sports injury together.

00:22:36.540 - 00:22:54.050

But when I came to the US though, then, you know, us, if you wanted to do like, uh, sports medicine, right? Uh, in, in US we call it athletic training program. So, um, you have to go through the, you know, 3 to 4 years bachelor, uh,

00:22:54.060 - 00:23:09.380

you know, um, program study at that time. I just did not want it, you know, given my background, I was a, you know, a medical doctor. I did not want to, you know, go through like, you know, four years uh undergraduate program again. So that's why

00:23:09.390 - 00:23:29.729

I stick to uh stats statistics and measurement. Yeah, but it's in kinesiology, I see kinesiology which you mentioned is sports science essentially. Yeah, it's exercise, exercise science, excuse, right? Very interesting. And you mentioned that you were a medical doctor before going on to, to earn a

00:23:29.739 - 00:23:49.599

phd in US. How do you say that? Kinesiology? Kinesiology? Thank you. Yeah. So you did a phd in kinesiology and, but prior to that you were a medical doctor practicing in Shanghai. Is that right? Yes. And what was your, your focus of practice there? Was it

00:23:49.609 - 00:24:09.150

in orthopedics or general medicine or? Um it's in neuro neurology? Oh, wow. Ok. So that was quite the shift. Yeah, it's about brain so, yeah, I didn't know a lot about brain when I was young, but not anymore. I forgot everything. Well, that's quite the quite the

00:24:09.160 - 00:24:29.859

career trajectory from a, a neurologist in China practicing in China to um kinesiology and as a professor now. Yeah, definitely. So every time when I start to teach a class, right at the beginning of the semester, I always need to explain to my student why I

00:24:29.869 - 00:24:48.910

changed, right? What I changed from? Yeah. Yeah. Uh Well, fantastic. Um Well, let's see here. Um So you mentioned that you, you moved around quite a bit in China. And so what did you grow up? Um like which, which language or dialect did you grow up

00:24:48.920 - 00:25:08.079

speaking? And did you learn other languages or dialects in your travels through China and different places that you lived or stuck mainly to one? Uh mainly is the Mandarin, Mandarin. Yeah, Mandarin is we call it, you know, uh a standard standard Chinese, you know language, right?

00:25:08.089 - 00:25:26.140

Uh official Chinese language but where I grew up, right? It's against province. So it's close to um it's in the west, right? It's in the west. The location is similar to uh where Boise, you know Idaho's location in the US. So yeah, so the weather is

00:25:26.150 - 00:25:45.380

actually pretty similar too. Um So that's why when I came to the, you know, to Ida, I feel like I came home like that. The weather because the location, everything. Uh and so uh so province they had, they have uh has um their dialects OK? But

00:25:45.390 - 00:26:04.949

their dialect is the, it's just the tone is different, you know, it's the same pronunciation, just the tone are different. Um So I, you know, I, I, you know, I speak that um then uh when I moved to Xi'an...Xi'an also has, you know, its own

00:26:04.959 - 00:26:23.540

dialect, but it's also the tone different. The, the, you know, the, the north and west of China, they speak all the same language. Like it's like, you know, Chinese tradition, it's just, you know, this mattering but the tones are different, right? Yeah, because Chinese languages are,

00:26:23.550 - 00:26:40.040

are tonal, they're tonal languages, which means that. Yeah, well, I was just gonna say uh-huh, go ahead, that one word would actually be written the same as another word. But if they're pronounced differently with a different tone, then they can have entirely different meanings, right? Yeah,

00:26:40.050 - 00:27:01.869

Shanghai and you know, like South China, they speak completely different dialect. Their dialect is the pronunciation is also different. Yeah, from even though the, if you look at the, you put things in writing, it's the same because the Asians are, are different. Interesting and the tones

00:27:01.880 - 00:27:20.660

are also different. So that's why I had hard time when I moved to Shanghai, right? I could not understand people's language. Yeah, very interesting. Um you know, so one of the reasons that we wanted to engage in these oral histories was to learn more about um

00:27:20.670 - 00:27:37.030

Boise's China Town, right? And the Chinese and Chinese American community in Boise a kind of in that period of the 1960s, the 1970s. And thereafter, now I know that you didn't come into, into, into Boise until 2002. But I'm curious if you have any

00:27:37.040 - 00:27:56.250

insights or what you've heard about Boise's China Town or about Chinese culture and traditions and history here in Boise, if much at all, you know, I, I really don't know too much about, you know, um Chinese like history in, in Idaho, I do know several things.

00:27:56.260 - 00:28:19.689

One is that um you know, um that's like, you know, earlier immigrants from China, right? They came to the US uh to Idaho mainly for the mining, I think. Right? Correct. Yeah. Um and railroads and timber companies and yes. Yeah. And Idaho uh in the past at

00:28:19.699 - 00:28:37.069

the early age like 18, you know, 1840 or something, you know, around that time or earlier, 88, you know, 18th century. I, I, I, I think that, you know, from, from what I read, right? Uh very limited knowledge. Uh it, you know, we had

00:28:37.079 - 00:28:58.910

a huge, you know, community there, right? Chinese community. Um but later on just because of the um because of the Chinese Exclusion Act or something like that, that uh then people moved out. So uh Chinden here, right? Chinden in, yeah, Idaho in Boise and Meridian

00:28:58.920 - 00:29:18.489

know that area that, that road is named right after maybe Chinese, you know, somehow it's related Chinese immigrants, right? That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Chinese Chinese gardens, it's a combination of those terms. It's what is, how the story goes anyway. Yeah, when I came, I, you know,

00:29:18.500 - 00:29:38.420

when I say I could not understand why the name is, then people say because it's related, you know, to the Chinese community. So I and also I think, you know, um somewhere the downtown China, downtown Idaho uh Boise uh I think around the central century link,

00:29:38.430 - 00:29:56.310

right, that arena, that area was originally Chinatown, right. Right. So Boise's had a couple of China towns throughout its history, you know, in the very early portion, it was focused around Idaho Street, right? And then more recently, the uh the Boise's Chinatown that most folks are

00:29:56.319 - 00:30:12.560

familiar with uh was centered right around City Hall here, actually. So City Hall is actually covering up much of um where Chinatown originally was, but it was mostly that Chinatown the second Chinatown, what we refer to as the second was mostly focused around Capital Boulevard. Um

00:30:12.569 - 00:30:28.140

from essentially where we sit here in City Hall to down to about Front Street. Ok. Yeah, I think this part of the history um you know, because again, I did not, you know, come to, to, you know, I, I did not really study in Boi- Idaho.

00:30:28.150 - 00:30:45.790

So I don't really not too much about history and also my son went to school, right. I don't think the school uh like curriculum includes, you know, something about this Chinese culture or Chinese history in their history book either. So, yeah, not. That's unfortunate. And you

00:30:45.800 - 00:31:01.810

know, that goes to another question that I had actually was, you know, you or your family sort of alluded it to it there briefly with your son. I'm curious about, you know, what you had learned either in school or your son has learned in school potentially

00:31:01.819 - 00:31:17.369

or what you've contact, come into contact with professionally or personally in terms of um the history of the Chinese community in Boise and in Idaho. And it sounds like it maybe it hasn't been that much even to the point where you said that your son didn't

00:31:17.380 - 00:31:36.020

really learn much about that in school growing. And that's here in Boise. I'm, I'm assuming, yeah, we did not really learn too much what my limited knowledge was um was uh really uh you know, based on my interaction with uh for example, Idaho State Museum, right?

00:31:36.030 - 00:31:55.109

Um They had some kind of event and a joint event with uh Idaho Chinese organization. So we learned that then um during the pandemic, you know, I was contacted by um by um what's, what's um what's her name? Um Beamers. Um what's, what's, what's her name?

00:31:55.119 - 00:32:14.930

The uh a Chinese pioneer? Um uh a woman. Polly Bemis? Yeah. Poly Beamers. So, you know, that, you know, we had kind of, you know, celebration event uh for her. Um So, so, you know, I think her, her maybe her um grand grant, you know, that

00:32:14.939 - 00:32:33.540

her relatives, you know, in US, right, contacted us um that uh we had event, you know, for the for, for kids in elementary school kids, right? Uh to write some kind, you know, writing context contest. So, you know, Chinese...Idaho Chinese organization provide some awards, you

00:32:33.550 - 00:32:50.969

know, organize this whole event um and also provide some awards. So that's when I started to know a little bit more about uh you know, Idaho's Chinese uh you know, history and of course, um during the pandemic or uh you know, and, and even right now

00:32:50.979 - 00:33:10.329

because of the anti, you know, kind of Asian uh events, right? Um the rates basically increased dramatically, then I was contacted by different groups to, to talk about um you know, you know, our, our um maybe our feelings, you know, is there something that need to

00:33:10.339 - 00:33:27.239

be concerned or something like that? Right. So we talk about those, that's when I started to have more and more uh understanding of, of the history. Yeah, there, yeah, but original history, I, I really did not, I did not really pay attention. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. And,

00:33:27.250 - 00:33:44.310

and it's interesting that you mentioned that you're, you're particularly your involvement in the Idaho Chinese Organization, right? And it sounds like a lot of that involvement may have been prompted by a lack of understanding for the most part of the history here in, in Idaho and

00:33:44.319 - 00:34:03.000

in Boise, which is significant and goes back 150 years um of the Chinese presence here, right? And so it sounds like some additional awareness, increasing awareness around that story and around that history was maybe potentially part of the motivation for, for you becoming involved

00:34:03.010 - 00:34:19.939

in that organization and that organization's relationship with some of the other entities that you mentioned, such as the Idaho State Museum, et cetera. Um Is that fair to say, or am I off base there? No, actually, um you know, originally when the Idaho Chinese Organization was,

00:34:19.949 - 00:34:40.020

you know, was formed, right? Um the goal was just to try to uh to increase the, you know, um Chinese uh you know, Idaho Chinese, you know, community involvement or interaction with um with other communities, right? Um So, so it's just try to, you know, what

00:34:40.030 - 00:34:57.739

we did in the past was really try to uh just organize some kind of social events for, for Chinese uh uh like a community. Uh you know, so typically we will have like a Lunar New Year, right? Chinese Lunar New Year um like celebration performance, you

00:34:57.750 - 00:35:13.449

know, stuff like that, that is big, right? So that all the Chinese uh uh kids and you know, um people they can, they can gather together, right? To, to kind of learn Chinese culture. Um that, that's one one thing another, you know is that really we we

00:35:13.459 - 00:35:31.239

gather together sometimes, you know, um for the Moon Festival that, you know, just you know, have pot luck, you know, to, to eat together, right? For social events, then another is just, you know, event we typically do, you know, before pandemic was um was because, you

00:35:31.250 - 00:35:47.489

know, although some people are already uh American citizens, right? But you know, some are still not, right? So they still have like have Chinese um like passport. So the Chinese embassy uh will travel, they will have, you know, a team travel to the U... to our

00:35:47.500 - 00:36:03.209

areas to to just help to, you know, to, to uh renew people's passport or stuff like that, right? So we just try to provide kind of, you know, uh uh convenient kind of, you know, um convenience to to to both parties, like to, to our community

00:36:03.219 - 00:36:19.504

members and also to the Chinese embassy. So we, you know, so we we organize those, those kind of events. So typically it's just really culture events because yeah, because Chinese um culture is that, you know, our our people are pretty quiet. I would say I would

00:36:19.514 - 00:36:35.465

consider it as a model citizen, right? In, in, in any, any country. However, um but you know, because it's so quiet, right? Uh we want our kids to be more social to go out to, to actually also learn a Chinese culture. Otherwise, you know, many kids

00:36:35.475 - 00:36:48.989

do not really speak Chinese, you know, when they grew up in the US, right? We wanted to, to really, you know, for them to, to learn some Chinese Chinese culture to, to learn at least, you know, can, can communicate with their parents and their grandparents, right?

00:36:49.030 - 00:37:10.530

So that's the reason before, before pandemic, before any like uh political event happened, right? But uh you know, this last several years, you know, uh because of pan pandemic, because of, you know, other poli political environment changes, right? And then then uh you know, then then

00:37:10.540 - 00:37:26.179

this, you know, this kind of a Asian hate or stuff, you know, become more uh more like more obviously that people feel there's the need for the organization to, to speak out for them. Yeah, I think, you know, in the past it's really culture but right

00:37:26.189 - 00:37:43.959

now seems like um you know, we we we we were forced or we are forced to, to get involved into some kind of, you know, political dialogues. Yeah, dialogues and stuff like that. Yeah, I see. Yeah. And I also wonder too if um you know, your

00:37:43.969 - 00:38:02.939

involvement in the Idaho Chinese Organization and sort of what you described as people coming together, seeking community. And since the pandemic really being forced almost and compelled in a way to come together to sort of combat this hate, right? I wonder if some of that, you

00:38:02.949 - 00:38:21.159

know, could be sort of like that, that um that objective could be aided through some of these interviews, some of these oral histories, right? Some of these historical narratives, right? Could help to solidify and to give credence to the place of the Chinese community here in

00:38:21.169 - 00:38:32.939

Idaho and in Boise, to help people understand, right, that the Chinese have been here since at least the 1860s here in Idaho and on the west coast and in the Western States for longer than that. Right? And I think that that's a really important point

00:38:34.040 - 00:38:49.050

that might, that maybe a lot of people, some people involved in your organization or some of your constituent base may not necessarily be aware of but could be tremendously beneficial potentially. So anyway, that's a, it makes me, it leads me into, you know, one of my

00:38:49.060 - 00:39:03.979

questions that I had is sort of if you had any thoughts as to what these kind of interviews, what this kind of research program, a project such as this could, could be used towards, right? So if you had a wish list, so to speak for what

00:39:03.989 - 00:39:24.909

would come from interviews and exchanges such as this, you know, what could the city do to help advance the cause of the Chinese community here in Boise? Um I feel like, you know, the should be the education I think should, should be, you know, educate people

00:39:24.919 - 00:39:41.929

about the history, not just Chinese history, but you know, other race and ethnicity, their, you know, country, their culture's history, right? Um So, so that, that, you know, the history should be in their curriculum, which unfortunately, I think right now it's not the case for the

00:39:42.290 - 00:40:00.139

uh you know, in Idaho, right? Uh That's my understanding that um somehow some history cannot be taught in school. Um but, you know, for Chinese history given, you know, you know, at least to me, it's very important for, for our kids to know that we are

00:40:00.149 - 00:40:17.830

not out, out outsiders. We are actually the the pioneer funding, you know, funders, right? In, you know, in, in Idaho. So, so it is important to tell people that, you know, for our kids to learn our um history to know that we belong, right? We is

00:40:17.840 - 00:40:36.360

not outsider, we try to come to steal uh you know, people's jobs or something here. So I think that, you know, put the history into the uh into the um uh curriculum and also have some kind of events, right? School events related to the history, not

00:40:36.370 - 00:40:52.350

just Chinese history can be, you know, all different kind of history, but you know, put the event, right? And on it in, in it, I think that would be important. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that. That's, those are wonderful ideas and um yeah, I really appreciate the

00:40:52.360 - 00:41:08.979

uh your response there. Um Could you tell me more about the Idaho Chinese Organization? You're the president of that organization, are you not? Yes, I'm still uh unfortunately, I cannot find anyone wanted to take over the region because then again, this is a volunteer kind of

00:41:08.989 - 00:41:32.370

job, right? Um Typically we, you know, it's a loose loosely organized organization, basically, right? Nonprofit organization. Um but, you know, uh really is, you know, just try to be a bridge between, like between Idaho, you know, uh community overall Idaho community and the Chinese community, right?

00:41:32.379 - 00:41:49.050

Try to show people, promote our culture uh to show people who we are, right? Uh to show people that what we typically do uh uh stuff like that. Um um But, you know, because it's volunteers and, and, you know, again, to me, um you know, our

00:41:49.060 - 00:42:08.429

culture is that people do not want to be, you know, a political leader. So, uh even though this organization is not a political, you know, position, right? Uh uh you know, organization, however, because of this past several years, uh kind of uh you know, experience or

00:42:08.439 - 00:42:27.090

whatever, right? Um That, uh you know, people started to um really not want to be the, the leader um to do. Yeah. Yeah, it just, you know, I want what I want is really walk my dogs, right? Pet my cats and just do my, do my

00:42:27.100 - 00:42:46.120

job, my, my original job, right? Like, you know, as a professor. So um organized community events really is not something I prefer, but I feel like someone has to do it right. So I'm hoping that our young people can step up and do it. Yeah. Now

00:42:46.429 - 00:43:02.050

that's um that's an interesting point there that you made at the end there. Is there would you say that the organization, its constituent base, its membership base is primarily older demographic or do you see some younger folks starting to get involved? Younger, like, you know, for,

00:43:02.060 - 00:43:20.580

for kids who are born like, like in the US? Right? Um They really uh they get involved because their parents get involved, not because they initiate anything, right? So we don't currently have any like um because the Idaho Chinese Organization has a council. OK, so we

00:43:20.590 - 00:43:39.010

have a council have 12 members uh there but they are all like parents. Yeah. Um no, none of them are like younger kids. Um But I do see uh younger ones, they currently, yeah, I think they formed uh like uh Idaho AAPI uh you know,

00:43:39.159 - 00:43:59.639

AAPI organization, stuff like that association or something like that. So then they, they get involved there but that, that event, you know, that organization is more uh in like, it's basically a kids. OK? Um like high school kids. Um it's more like a political uh

00:43:59.649 - 00:44:19.030

you know, like motivated. Um they want to be the leader, they want to uh to have their voice heard. It's different than Idaho Chinese organization, which is a nonprofit Organization really doesn't uh focus on political events unless you know, we are forced to do it. It's

00:44:19.070 - 00:44:41.610

a different culture kind of, you know, organization. Yeah, people, I, I see young people, especially girls, OK, young, like Chinese girls, right? Um we call it ABC like a um Chinese born in US, right? So we call it ABC American born Chinese like that, right? So,

00:44:41.620 - 00:44:57.560

so the girls, they, they, they, you know, they are more interested at least, you know, from what, what I observed for, you know, these several years, right? The high school girls and Chinese girls are more into, you know, kind of this kind of AAPI you

00:44:57.570 - 00:45:16.709

know, uh um like a community or, or, or organization to, to, to, to, to let their voice heard. But of all Idaho Chinese organization is mainly parents, their kids get involved, their kids get involved because of their parents. Yeah. Uh right. So the Idaho Chinese Organization

00:45:16.719 - 00:45:37.159

is, it's headquartered here in Boise, I'm assuming, but does it uh is it open to Chinese individuals of Chinese descent across Idaho? Yes. Uh-huh. And do you have folks joining you from other population centers in Idaho, whether it's Twin Falls or, or Rigby or, or we

00:45:37.169 - 00:45:51.330

have some connections with Twin Falls? They, they are not really joining us because I think they have their own group, they are small group there, right? Because they are from us. Our event is mainly in Idaho in, in, in Boise, right? So, so it's too far

00:45:51.340 - 00:46:04.709

for them to come. But when, when there are some events going on, we do actually notify them so that they, if they, you know, they choose, they can come to join us. Yeah. So it's mostly focused here in Boise. And your membership base is mostly in

00:46:04.719 - 00:46:20.550

Boise but not, it's not exclusive to Boise. It can include people from anyone, anyone wanted to join in Idaho, they can join because we, you know, when we talk about membership, we don't really, you know, have like, collect anything from the membership. It people say they

00:46:20.560 - 00:46:38.899

want, you know, I'm, if they are Chinese uh you know, descendant or they are relatives, right? Even they are American, you know, like white Caucasian or, or black or Hispanics, right? But if they're uh their, their wife, their husband, you know, um their other relatives, right?

00:46:38.909 - 00:46:58.020

They're interested, they can always join our, our events, you know, our organization. That's not a problem for us. Yeah. Uh I see. And does the organization contribute to putting on celebrations like you mentioned, whether it's Lunar New Year or um the moon celebration that you mentioned

00:46:58.030 - 00:47:22.939

earlier? Is you lead those, those events? Yeah. Yeah, great. Well, I wonder we've gotten through, we've covered a lot of ground. Um I did wanna sort of circle back to asking you about your professional work at Boise State University. Um And you mentioned on sort of

00:47:22.949 - 00:47:38.199

the, you touched on the trajectory that led you to be becoming a professor at Boise State. But I was wondering if you could speak to your career at, at BSU a little bit as a professor and what that's meant to you. Um That means a

00:47:38.209 - 00:47:56.879

lot to me. Right. That's my profession. Uh uh I teach statistics and uh measurement and research method. So, um uh you know, I just like Boise State University. Uh you know, in terms of, you know, of course, the workload to me, I do part of the

00:47:56.889 - 00:48:15.520

research, part of the teaching, right? And also community service and professional service. So I like uh in the, the balance, OK, between the teaching service and research. Um And also I like um Idaho's, you know, I like our students. So the students here are, they're different

00:48:15.530 - 00:48:33.340

than Illinois student. I don't know, maybe because I was uh was a student myself when I taught, you know, you know, class over there, right? Uh I think Idaho's um student, you know, a Boise State University student that they, they are more respectful to, to their

00:48:33.350 - 00:48:49.500

professors. So that perspective, I like, like it and also um uh people here like, you know, at this Boise State, I feel like they are um uh you know, faculties are very friendly and we have a good relationship. So I just like all aspect of my

00:48:49.510 - 00:49:04.520

work over there. Yeah. Good. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. And it's a, it's a wonderful service that you provide as a BS U professor to the community. And uh yeah, absolutely. And as you mentioned, you're involved in community service. And do you like the research

00:49:04.530 - 00:49:23.739

aspect of it too? What is your research focus my research focus because I'm a statistician and measurement specialist. So my research really for and also in kinesiology which is exercise science, you know, perspective, right? So my focus is focus is on like um kind of advanced

00:49:24.050 - 00:49:44.459

um measurement or statistic uh technologies, right? In, in the use of of like promoting physical activity behaviors, you know, uh health and um you know, um those kind of outcomes. Um um recently though I do work on uh with, with the looks, right? I have um

00:49:44.469 - 00:50:01.820

subcontract with the looks to work on some kind of concussion related uh research, you know, the the concussion is a big um big uh uh you know, like uh like uh. Issue. Yeah, big issue for, for uh for many people, not just the kids, right? So,

00:50:01.830 - 00:50:18.489

but you, we are talking about, you know, you spots, right? And yearly there are just so many like the prevalence, prevalence of uh youth sports, you know, concussion is so high. We are working on uh several uh several like a projects related to the concussion. Try

00:50:18.500 - 00:50:33.580

to, you know, to find, for example, what is the best way, better way to diagnose concussion like objectively because right now it's, you know, we use like kind of questionnaire right to ask people's symptoms. But you know, it it it is um highly possible that when

00:50:33.590 - 00:50:50.040

people's symptoms disappeared, right? We say, ok, you are cleared to go back to, to, to do our activity. But you know, they, they, they are, they're like objective like neural or, or like the brain, you know, may, may not really fully recover right from the the

00:50:50.050 - 00:51:05.780

from the injury. So we try to find what is the best way to detect that, right? And also try to use the, you know, patient's data to, to see the epidemiology of, you know, of the concussion happens and their recovery, right? What may affect, you know,

00:51:05.790 - 00:51:22.330

their recovery, it's the, it's their gender, you know, uh in addition to sports itself, right? It's the gender is the race, ethnicity, their income level, you know, their demographics and you know, their history, personal history or their family history, you know, may affect their, their, you

00:51:22.340 - 00:51:43.209

know, their concussion recovery, stuff like that. So, yeah, I do do, I just, you know, my research is almost everywhere. It's like uh you know, this uh injury prevention epidemiology um uh and also like a performance evaluation we give like for example, give um athletes, right,

00:51:43.219 - 00:51:58.629

some kind of device put it on their, you know, they they can put it in, in their uh you know, um uh uniform, right? Then, then we measure their like during the training, uh we measure how many like steps they typically run and what's their direction

00:51:58.639 - 00:52:16.419

of the uh uh of uh you know, like a change of direction. What's their acceleration, speed, everything, right? Try to see uh that, you know, try to to provide kind of, you know, kind of a portfolio for each individual, uh, athlete so that when they are,

00:52:16.429 - 00:52:33.000

you know, their training patterns suddenly changed. Right. Then, then we prob, it may show they're over, like they're, they, they're having fatigue or they're, they're at the risk of, of injury, stuff like that. So I do a lot of stuff like that too. Yeah. Wow, that's

00:52:33.010 - 00:52:47.929

fascinating. Yeah, it sounds like very far reaching and, and all encompassing and frankly way over my head. But um very interesting and um so is there anything that we've, that we've missed Doctor Gao that you feel like we, we should cover just keeping an eye on

00:52:47.939 - 00:53:02.770

the time knowing that we're, we've been at it for about an hour now. Um Are there questions that, that you would like me to ask in, in closing here or topics that you prefer that we do get to? Um No, I think it's, you know, we

00:53:02.780 - 00:53:20.290

covered almost everything. Um One thing probably is that uh I, I I, you know, my feeling about Idaho, right? Is that um as an immigrant, right? Chinese immigrant, I, I feel like Idaho's diversity is not, not good, right? So we, we are very um narrowed in

00:53:20.300 - 00:53:39.800

terms of race and ethnicity. So um when people um you know, like interact with um you know, with a diverse group, right? They uh like, you know, sometimes they say things not because they are racist, it's because they don't know. Right. It's lack of understanding, lack

00:53:39.810 - 00:53:58.469

of knowledge, lack lack of interaction uh with uh you know, minority groups or, or, you know, like a Chinese immigrants, you know, make people misunderstand, right? You know, and misinformed about uh you know, other groups. So that's the part I do hope that, you know, the

00:53:58.479 - 00:54:18.469

diversity uh kind of um kind of conversation or diversity kind of uh promote, promoting diversity uh can be or should be uh you know, a goal or, or, you know, one object, right? For, for, for, for the city, you know, for, for your project, you know.

00:54:18.729 - 00:54:31.189

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Yeah. And so we do approach everything through that lens and, and I'm glad to hear you say that, but it also brings to mind a question that um I wanted to get to. So I'm glad that you brought it

00:54:31.199 - 00:54:47.929

up and if you're comfortable talking about it. So, in your experience with, you know, just in, since 2002, being in the US and since 2008 being in here in Boise have either you or people that you're close to or maybe even members of your organization, um

00:54:47.939 - 00:55:05.030

The Idaho Chinese Organization encountered any discrimination. It sounds like maybe that there has been some, at least, if not discrimination outright, some, some lack of understanding and some ignorance that you've experienced. Um does anything stand out in that regard or can you comment on that phenomenon

00:55:05.040 - 00:55:22.320

just generally, you know, personally I don't, I, I don't feel like I ever experienced. Maybe I just, I'm not aware. Right. Um, oh, actually, um, uh, I had one event, um, in the past I did not think it's discrimination but, you know, when I talk with

00:55:22.330 - 00:55:39.350

people, like, um, my, my white friends, right. They say that's, you know, kind of discrimination. Um, it's like, you know, when, when, when my son Alex was, you know, playing tennis, right? You know, he, he was in one of the tournament. So, you know, I did

00:55:39.360 - 00:55:55.419

not really know, I, although I, I feel bad, I, you know, I, I, I, I teach uh in kinesiology but I don't really know too much about tennis. So I don't know, like how score, how to score, right? You know, when do you win or stuff

00:55:55.429 - 00:56:09.270

like that whenever I went to his, you know, his games, right? Competition, I, you know, I watch a little bit but then I just do not watch, right. Stuff like that. So one day he was playing, uh he was, you know, during the tournament, right? He

00:56:09.280 - 00:56:23.860

wanted to, he wanted to go to um, the restroom then, uh, you know, I said, oh, you know, he go to restroom. I just, I also went to restroom, you know. Right. Then one lady, uh fo followed me. I did not really understand why he, you

00:56:23.870 - 00:56:38.280

know, I thought she she was also going to the restroom right? Then when I went to the restroom, my son came out, then I just said something in Chinese, I say, oh, you know, relax you are doing pretty good, right? But it was in Chinese, the lady

00:56:38.290 - 00:56:53.959

could not understand. But then I realized he is the, you know, in my son's, you know, the opponent, you know, the other players who play, right? So he, you know, the the the lady heard I was speaking Chinese, he was worried about uh you know, I

00:56:53.969 - 00:57:09.060

I may coach my son, right? But you know, I he didn't, she did not know I had no knowledge about, you know, tennis or anything, right? So I was just say, say say, you know Chinese words, right? Then she said, no, you cannot say it right?

00:57:09.070 - 00:57:24.159

You you cannot, you know, do stuff like that. I said, what did I say? Um I, I I said, relax, why it's not OK. Right. So then she also called the referee came to say, you know, I was coaching my son, right? I should not. Uh

00:57:24.169 - 00:57:38.810

but the coach, you know, the referee say no, she she can say whatever she wants in Chinese, right? You know, then then the lady said, oh if she says in China, she if she says whatever things right? She should speak English, not Chinese stuff like that,

00:57:38.820 - 00:57:55.260

right? So at that time, I was really mad because I said, what, what you know, why you do not allow me to speak Chinese stuff like that. Right. And I did not really think that's discrimination. Yeah. It's just, I feel like, oh, yeah, someone just really,

00:57:55.280 - 00:58:07.919

you know, really, uh, into their kids, you know, play. Right? And stuff like that. It sounds like there was an accusation that you were given tips or anything, you know, something like that on how your son was playing and maybe cheating, cheating or something like that.

00:58:07.929 - 00:58:21.300

But, but as you mentioned, you know, you didn't know a lick about tennis. And so that's kind of, yeah, you probably thought that was kind of comical. But, um, yeah, that is an interesting, that was interesting. Yeah, that's my personal experience. I think that's the only

00:58:21.310 - 00:58:36.739

one that I experienced. I did not at that time. Think it's any kind of discrimination. I just feel like it's just some, you know, a lady, a mom, right? Uh uh very, very interested in, in, in, uh, or very into, you know, his son's, you know,

00:58:36.750 - 00:58:59.899

uh competition, right? And stuff like that. Maybe there, there was misunderstanding but, but, you know, the referee and my friends all say, say differently. Ok, that's one event then my son during the pandemic had event uh was definitely called like, um uh Chinese. What's the word? Chink.

00:59:00.810 - 00:59:21.659

Yeah. Uh-huh. So a derogatory. Yeah. Yeah, kind of, yeah, during the uh, so he, he went to, uh, do we have, oh, oh. Owyhee. Do we have Owyhee? Yeah, Owyhee High School. Right, to play, um, you know, for the tennis tournament because he's in the tennis team, right? So then one

00:59:21.669 - 00:59:40.479

kid just out of blue came to him say go back to your, to go back to China. Yeah. Yeah. Your, your chinks or something like that. Yeah. Very, yeah, that's very xenophobic and frankly racist. Yeah. Yeah. Outburst. So he, he, he, he was so shocked because he never

00:59:40.489 - 00:59:55.820

thought, you know, people will ask him to go back to China or something like that, right? He never, never thought he, he's, he's a foreigner, you know, like, like that. But so that was a shock, you know, shock. That was shocked to him too. Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:55.830 - 01:00:13.580

That's unfortunate. I'm sorry that that happened. Yeah. My other friends also experienced some similar things during the pandemic. Yeah. Yeah. There's a tendency for, I think Idaho has, you know, sort of garnered a reputation and particularly rural Idaho as not being particularly open to quote unquote

01:00:13.590 - 01:00:26.760

foreigners, right? And as you mentioned, your son's not a foreigner, right? He was born right here. However, I think that's kind of the tendency and, and, or at least the perception and I hope that, you know, through this project, at least here in Boise, if not

01:00:26.770 - 01:00:42.219

in the rest of Idaho, we can contribute to kind of making sure that people aren't so ignorant and so hurtful with the things that they say and how they view others and, yeah, as I mentioned, you alluded to, you know, diversity equity inclusion, very, very important

01:00:42.229 - 01:00:56.260

to that. And that's very a focal point of the work that we do and certainly is a big driving force behind these conversations that you and I are having Dr Gao and just really appreciate you taking some time. And I hope that that some folks can

01:00:56.270 - 01:01:12.709

get some value out of these conversations and researchers and the programming that we create as a result of these, these interviews I think are really going to go. The hope is anyway that it can hope that it can do some good in contributing to equality and

01:01:12.820 - 01:01:31.419

promoting diversity, right? And helping people to understand um that Chinese people have been a part of Idaho's history since the beginning, since territorial days and certainly through statehood and and into contemporary times right up until uh right now. And that's an important thing that I think

01:01:31.429 - 01:01:46.520

people take away. So I appreciate you contributing to this conversation. Yeah. Uh one...one suggestion I do have like in addition to put the history in the curriculum, right? I'm thinking if city or even Idaho, I don't know if you know how big this project would be,

01:01:46.530 - 01:02:00.879

right? We have some culture events that not just for one culture, not for, for, you know, two culture, right? It's just, you know, blended culture, a kind of events, not just one or just two, right? If you know, budget a lot Right. That's so people from

01:02:00.889 - 01:02:15.844

different cultural background, right. They can come together, interact with others. I think, you know, sometimes the racism is kind, you know, is from the, you know, not knowing, right? Not knowing and fear because they don't know, know what's going on, they don't know all the culture,

01:02:15.854 - 01:02:31.479

they just, you know, assume it's bad or stuff like that. Right. So, you know, and stuff, I think that would be helpful. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you very much for the suggestions and for sharing some of your story with us and some of your life history

01:02:31.489 - 01:02:46.570

and providing insight into your life, your family's lives, we really appreciate it. And I think it will be immensely valuable to folks and we just really want to thank you for donating some of your time. I know that you, you already feel that you donate a

01:02:46.580 - 01:02:59.060

lot of your time with the organization that you're involved in and you want somebody to take over there. So you can go back to teaching and walking your dog and petting your cats, as you said. But I think it's a wonderful thing that you're doing and

01:02:59.340 - 01:03:14.260

um you're very generous with your time. So I just want to say, thank you very much for participating in this. Thank you for this interview. Thank you, Doctor Gao. Is there anything else? No, that's it. Yeah. All right. Well, that'll conclude the interview then. Really appreciate

01:03:14.270 - 01:03:19.100

it and have a wonderful day. Ok, you too. Bye. All right. Take care. Bye bye.